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Thread: Thomas Spencer

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by helachau View Post
    Cannot see a birth date for Sir Thomas, 1st Baronet, Yarnton in Arthur Collins' work. Confirms marriage to "Margaret, daughter of Richard Branthwait, Searjent at the Law". Children named as eldest William, Kt and Bart, John, Thomas, Richard, Edward, Alice, Anne, Margaret and Catherine.

    Confirms death as 16 Aug 1622 - age not identified.
    Sir Thomas Spencer, 1st Baronet (c. 1586 - 7 August 1622)
    Spencer was the son of Sir William Spencer, of Yarnton, Oxfordshire, and his wife Margaret Bowyer, daughter of Francis Bowyer, Alderman of London.
    Spencer married Margaret Brainthwait, daughter of Richard Brainthwait, Serjeant at Law in about 1605. After her husband's death, she married as his third wife Richard Butler, 3rd Viscount Mountgarret after 1625. She died at St. Giles' in the Fields on 16 December 1655 and was buried at Yarnton on 21 December.

    go to Wikipedia Search for House of Spencer lots of information on them

  2. #12
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    Pam is right about Parish records being stolen.

    I am doing some research for a friend who is looking for a partners half brother all she has is half brothers Christian Name and his mothers Christian Name the year he was born 1971 and the place he was born, fathers name but that's no help as they weren't married.
    I contacted a friend who still lives in the village I'll go and have a look in the parish records she said (Pfff as in spitting) someone has stolen the records for that year from the Church.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by helachau View Post
    Children named as eldest William, Kt and Bart, John, Thomas, Richard, Edward, Alice, Anne, Margaret and Catherine.

    Confirms death as 16 Aug 1622 - age not identified.
    Thomas Wotton's 1727 work "The English baronets. Being a genealogical & historical account of their families" includes -

    "Sir Thomas (Spencer) had Issue by her (Margaret Brainthwaite) five sons, first Sir William, his successor; second, John; third Thomas; who both died without issue; ..."
    "dyfal donc a dyr y garreg"

  4. #14
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    Default Hello All.

    Thank you very much for all the help and info. Personally i do not think Sir Thomas is my Thomas Spencer's father. For me there are too many red flags and it begs the question if your of royal decent why go to the new world so to speak, but i could be wrong maybe this is one of those mystery's where i may never know the answer too.

  5. #15
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    You say he went to Maine in "The Great Puritan Migration" I think that's a clue. I don't think the Spencers of Yarton, Oxfordshire who became "Barons" who are the Ancestors of Princess Diana of Abthorpe Northamptonshire were Puritan's, maybe someone else could tell.

  6. #16
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    Correct, they both ( Thomas and Patience ) were Quakers, In fact it was illegal to be a Quaker in puritan Massachusetts. If caught you were put to death. which at the time Maine was a part of. They were caught holding Quaker meetings in there home and somehow escaped there death sentence but lost all there land. Thomas had accumulated a lot of land in Berwick Maine.

  7. #17
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    If you Google 'patience chadbourne', then scroll to third entry for Chadbourne Family
    Association, it gives a run down on research done.

  8. #18
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    Just so you know--the Thomas Spencer / Patience Chadbourne line, like you say, isn't the Thomas of 4bros. line of Bedfordshire, nor is he related to Any of the titled lines, whether of Yarnton or Nicholas of Cople. Those latter lines are all of the originating Spencer / Despencer lines, if one goes far enough backwards, but DNA also gives clues, if not outright circumstantial supportive proof. The 4bros. line are E1B1b/ E-M35/ E-L117, etc. Haplotype(haplogroup)--they keep adjusting changing the nomenclature, as they further refine the sub-clades. (Haplotype/roup is "What branch of the Human Tree do your people come-down From, after we All left Sub-Saharan AFRICA? Did they migrate from Africa into (& become) Indo-European, or Asian, Iberian, or??") Anyway ALL Other Spencers are the R1 Haplogroup which goes back to the Romans who invaded Britain. The E-group Haplogroup are those going back to Normandy, France, & before that were Danish VIKINGS, etc. To show you the DNA differences: 1st line is DNA "markers" of the 4bros. line(& right below it, it Tom & Patience, Spencer DNA surname "markers"):
    ..................NAME........................HAPL OTYPE.................MARKERS..................... .................................................. ..................
    470880 Gerard Spencer England E-L117 13 24 13 10 13-17 11 12 12 13 11 29

    102372 Thos1596,m.CHADBOURNE R-M269 14 24 14 11 12-14 12 12 12 13 13 29

    SO IN ABOVE, 5 Separate surname genetic "markers" are completely different--hence NOT Same biological family.

    When you say your Thomas Spencer was son of either John, son of Robert OR son of William, son of Robert--it doesn't "prove" either--and the Robert of Cople line are blood cousins of the 4bros.line, so NOT Possible for Thomas of Tom & Patience Spencer to BE Of that descent. Only clue-ing you in on this so you won't waste time getting stuck in an unprove-able loop. Wishing you the best of luck! Take Care, Vienna Spencer

  9. #19
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    Hello Vienna;

    I too believe My Thomas Spencer is not related to the House of Spencer, however a few times when i do searches i get tid bits suggesting he could be, a example here is such one : Capt. Roger Spencer, living 1652 in Saco, Maine. A daughter of that Roger used as her coat of arms, Quarterly Argent and Gules in the second and third quarters a fret or overall on a bend Sable three escallops Or - the same coat of arms as Princess Diana. (America Heraldica.) Now it is suggested Capt Roger Spencer ( who is thought to be born 193 Bermondsey Street, London, Greater London, UK in 1618 ) to be related to Thomas Spencer of Maine, for the past 6 months i have been tracing this to no luck, so there are 2 Spencers with hardly no info.

    I will admit i am no DNA expert , I did have mine done from Ancestory but my link to the Spencer line comes from my mother. I have not yet taken a YDNA since there very expensive. Thank you for writing and the well wishes, but i feel unless i come up with a large sum of money this line may never know who Thomas Spencers parents are.

  10. #20
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    Hey PredMan,

    Yeah LOTS of False info out there, online--so makes it hard for all of us! The example of Capt. Roger's daughter using as HER "coat of arms", the Princess Diana ones. The REASON for That--is, back in the day --from way-back in 1600s, until just the year 2000, when the DNA Spencer testing began....EVERYONE In AMERICA "thought" that ALL "Spencers" in the U.S., came-down from those 4 brothers who arrived in America c.1630---so they used the coat-of-arms that the 4bros. group was using.

    It was only the DNA testing that began showing there were Over 22+ different un-related Spencer blood groups --none related to ea. other, nor to the 4bros.'s line. And 20+ Other Spencer individuals un-grouped w/ any other person. So 42+ different Spencer surnamed families, so far, & counting.

    The ONLY Way a yDNA test will help You--is IF you were born with the last name of Spencer, as that y-line DNA test Only shows your surname "markers" passed-down from father-to-son infinitum (in another words it will match you to people w/ your DAD's last name). If your mom was the Spencer, you can take an Autosomal DNA test, which tests the DNA material you received from both your mom's & dad's sides, & may show you some "matches" w/ other Spencers, or may not. Depends on Which ancestors your DNA was drawn FROM, at the time of conception!

    Maybe Capt. Roger Spencer WAS related to Thomas of Maine, as there were only a very few separate Spencer families IN America in the earliest years. Your DNA may end-up showing "matches" WITH Someone OF Thomas's line, who has paperwork ON Roger, or you might directly DNA match a Roger descendant, which also would answer one of your questions.

    If you do Spencer yDNA surname testing, go w/ FamilyTreeDNA.com, as they automatically Put you INTO your correct Spencer biologic family group---you won't get that from any other company. They also do Autosomal DNA testing, as well.Autosomal test is only $79 ($59,as often,on sale)-& w/ FamilyTreeDNA.com, you will probably get more SPENCER "matches" as there are more SPENCERs IN their database, than Ancestry. So worth doing that test again, w/ them.

    Alright---sending you all good wishes for you on your Quest!!
    Take Care,
    Vienna (Spencer)

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