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  1. #1
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    Default Sunderland birth

    Not sure if I am in right Forum or not. I would like details of the parents of an Elsie Williams born Sunderland 1902 vol 10a page 756. I am hoping mother is Elizabeth and Thomas Edgar Williams. I have Elsie's marriage certificate in Aust in 1927 stating those parents and she was born in Sunderland, but in 1904. It also states both parents were deceased at date of marriage, and that TEW was an engineer. Many thanks.

  2. #2
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    The GRO shows the mother’s maiden surname for this birth as Taylor. Checking for other births in Sunderland with the same mmn brings up Doris (1903), Violet (1905) and Ruby (1907). This leads to a family in Sunderland in 1911 headed by Charles D Williams, a Marine Fireman, & his wife, Elizabeth A, who had been married 10 years.

    Charles Dagwell Williams married Elizabeth Ann Taylor in Sunderland in 1901

  3. #3
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    Well thanks Jomot1, that certainly eliminates the family I am trying to trace. Back to square one, I guess. Elsie's death certificate in 1964 said she had lived 58 years in Australia and she was aged 60. Although her husband was the informant, particulars are not always correctly recorded. Appreciate you bothered to check.

  4. #4
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    How about the parents of an Elsie born in Durham Sept 1903 10a/427. I think Durham in the same region. Also family myth that mother, Elizabeth, died before Elsie left to come to Aust, and there is an Elizabeth Williams dying in Durham in 1906. Could you kindly check that out?

  5. #5

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    Your best bet would be to buy a copy of her birth certificate, of course.

    I see that there is only 1 Elsie Williams b Sunderland, Co Durham, between 1901-1905. I assume that she's the one in the 1911 census, born abt 1902 in Sunderland, living with parents Charles D and Elizabeth Williams (I searched 1903 +/- 5 years).

    I've tried all sorts of other things (removing the locations, broadening the dates, etc) and I can't see any likely candidate with Elsie, dau of Thomas & Elizabeth.
    Tiny hope- I have found a marriage for Thomas Edgar Williams to either Elizabeth O'Reilly or Ida Job in 1906 in Birkenhead...

    I have also found a couple called Thomas & Elizabeth Williams (ages 33 and 30) with their daughters Elsie (6) and Lucy (3) in Glasgow. They were all b. England, Thomas is a commercial traveller for a jute manufacturer.

  6. #6
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    Thanks Lesley. Elsie's marriage and death certs which I have, both state parents Elizabeth and Thomas Edgar and she was born in 1904 in Sunderland. Both dead when Elsie married, and Thomas was described as of New Zealand then, despite being dead. Why do you think the Elsie born in Durham Sept 1903 10a/427 couldn't be the correct person?

  7. #7
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    Hi JandL,

    I have to go out for a few hours but will try and look at some Durham references later, but Durham (the city/town) is quite distinct from Sunderland.

    I take it that there are no helpful witness names on the marriage certificate?

  8. #8

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    "JandL, I suggest that you check the 1911 census - if the 1903 birth is the right one, she should be living with one or both of her parents, or as an orphan, depending on what had happened.

    Do you know when she travelled to Aus. Did she do it alone? If Thomas is described as "of NZ", the whole family posibly travelled there - have you checked the passenger lists?

  9. #9
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    No help with wedding witnesses. But death says she had been in Aust 58 years, therefore 2 years old when she arrived in Aust. as she died in 1964 aged 60. I have done my best to look for incoming Thomas Edgar Williams, presuming he would have accompanied her, but not found anything. I also tried to search NZ for his death, presuming he had died there, but that was an even worse minefield. Sorry to bother everyone.

  10. #10
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    I had a quick look at that Durham birth, and there was a sister named Mary Ellen born in late 1908. The siblings are with their parents Herbert Williams and Hannah (Davies) in 1911 at Wheatley Hill, Durham

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