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  1. #1

    Default Help!!!! Cordwainer?

    Hi there, i'm new to the forum so please excuse any mistakes.
    Me and my grandfather have been trying to smash through the brick wall we have encountered for a solid year now to no avail so i was wandering if any one could help us?

    We are trying to uncover the story of my fourth great grandfather Patrick Sullivan who at the moment, is a complete mystery. The only info i have on Patrick is whats on his son John Sullivan's marriage certificate in 1860.

    John Sullivan born circa 1840-1 married Catherine Lyons born circa 1841-2 in 1860 in Merthyr Tydfil Wales. Just to point out Catherine's father Thomas Lyons is also causing the same problem as he to was deceased at the time and we cannot find him anywhere either.

    On this certificate it states Patrick Sullivan was a cordwainer and was deceased at the time of the marriage. We have scoured census records in both Wales and Ireland and we just cant find him anywhere.
    we are both stumped and we don't know what we can do to try and find him.

    Just in case anyone has a look for us, John Sullivan changes his mind on census records as to where he is from, one minuet he was born in Ireland the next in wales so i assume he was born in Ireland as it seems odd to put down the unfavourable country at the time if he was indeed Welsh. So our assumption is John was born in Ireland and possibly Patrick died over there?

    Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
    Kind regards Lew.

  2. #2

    Default

    Welcome to the British Genealogy Forum.
    It sounds as though you have the wedding certificate for John & Catherine, so you're fairly sure of their ages and the fathers' namesl names. Do you have them in the 1851 census? With the bride and groom born at the start of the 1940s, I'd be looking for parental marriages (hoping like mad that they married after 1837 when marriage certs began. If you have them in the 1851 (or even 1841), you have the maternal forenames, which will help to narrow down the numbers of grooms to look at.
    I don't know what you mean by "unfavourable country", but if he had a gang of siblings, all born in one country, he might have assumed that he was born there as well... People often preferred to lie in the face of officialdom rather than admit that they didn't know something...

  3. #3
    Growing old Disgracefully
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    could this be your man....

    Name: John Sullivan
    Baptism Age: 0
    Event Type: Baptism
    Birth Date: 1840
    Baptism Date: 28 May 1840
    Baptism Place: Gortnahoe, Tipperary, Ireland
    Parish Variants: Glengoole, Gurtnahoe and Glengoole
    Diocese: Cashel and Emly
    Father: Patrick Sullivan
    Mother: Anne Morris

  4. #4

    Default

    Hi there thanks for the reply, by unfavourable country i mean at the the time as i'm sure you are fully aware the Irish were treated worse than most other races so if John was welsh why would he lie and put the 'unfavourable' race of Irish if that makes any sense unless he was identifying with where his father was born.

    Unfortunately i don't have them on the 1851 or 41 census and thus, do not know if he had any siblings and this is where our problem begins. Me and my grandfather cannot find any of them anywhere, we cannot find any families headed by a Patrick that fits the information we have.

    we are a sure as we can be that the wedding certificate is correct as there was only two other johns and catherines married in the area but on the other certificate Catherine's age was well out for the census records we had for her 1870-1901.

    Thanks for the reply,
    Lew.

  5. #5

    Default

    Hi there, there are so many records for a John born to a Patrick in southern Ireland that its almost impossible for me to see how any of them can be concluded as correct , as i have no information other than whats on the wedding certificate and snippets of later census records but they don't help a great deal.
    thanks for the reply.
    Lew

  6. #6
    Growing old Disgracefully
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    Is this them in 1891 Census with children in Mountain Ash, Merthyr. Wales
    Name Age
    John Sullivan 50
    Catherine Sullivan 50
    Thomas Sullivan 20
    Jeremiah Sullivan 19
    Edward Sullivan 11
    Catherine Sullivan 9
    James Davies 23 Lodger

  7. #7
    Brick wall demolition expert!
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    Just to confirm

    1861 Census Ref RG09 4050 73 61

    Is this your John Sullivan - at 2 Sheperds Row, Merthyr Tydfil? Household includes a 12 year old Daniel Sullivan, brother, born Ireland.
    "dyfal donc a dyr y garreg"

  8. #8

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    Hi Sandy, yes thats them Napier street Mountain ash.

  9. #9
    Brick wall demolition expert!
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    A Denis Sullivan's birth was registered March Qtr, 1861, Merthyr Tydfil - mother Lyons.
    "dyfal donc a dyr y garreg"

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by helachau View Post
    Just to confirm

    1861 Census Ref RG09 4050 73 61

    Is this your John Sullivan - at 2 Sheperds Row, Merthyr Tydfil? Household includes a 12 year old Daniel Sullivan, brother, born Ireland.
    Hi there, im unsure of the whereabouts of them in 1861 but John married Catherine in 1860 so i assume he would be living with her somewhere? I also cannot find this record is there any other info on it?
    Last edited by lewissullivan; 09-06-2018 at 1:03 PM. Reason: Extra Information

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