Help!!!! Cordwainer?

[lewissullivan]

That's brilliant, bang on the right ages and if you say Dennis was born to a Lyons it must be them. Is there any way we could used this to trace either of their parents?
Thank you very much for you help.
Lew.

[Pam Downes]

After searching I still can't find that census extract being mentioned on the thread on ancestry.com. just my luck that it's going to be the correct one.

On Ancestry.com, on the initial 1861 census page, do you get a heading that says '1861 census collection', but if you scroll down the page you then see separate headings for England, Wales, etc? If so, click on the Wales 1861 section, and if you scroll down again, you'll see sections where you can enter the piece, folio, and page numbers. Click the 'exact' boxes which should appear to the right of the number boxes.
However, you won't find John Sullivan listed in the names of people on the page. He's indexed as John William - note there is no 's' on the end of William.

OK, I've now done a 'basic search', albeit on Ancestry.co.uk. For reasons best known to themselves, if you do a search on the main 1861 census collection, searching for first name John, surname William, born 1841, birthplace Ireland, living in Merthyr Tydfil Wales, you will get a nil reply. Even if you tick the 'exact' boxes. (Anyone who thinks women lack logic should check out Ancestry's software. )
Miss out the Merthyr Tydfil bit, and you get nine results. The first five are all John Williams in England. Number six should be your lucky number.
Brother Daniel is on the next census image.

Should add that you'll understand Ancestry's surname index as William when you see the image.

Pam

[lewissullivan]

On Ancestry.com, on the initial 1861 census page, do you get a heading that says '1861 census collection', but if you scroll down the page you then see separate headings for England, Wales, etc? If so, click on the Wales 1861 section, and if you scroll down again, you'll see sections where you can enter the piece, folio, and page numbers. Click the 'exact' boxes which should appear to the right of the number boxes.
However, you won't find John Sullivan listed in the names of people on the page. He's indexed as John William - note there is no 's' on the end of William.

OK, I've now done a 'basic search', albeit on Ancestry.co.uk. For reasons best known to themselves, if you do a search on the main 1861 census collection, searching for first name John, surname William, born 1841, birthplace Ireland, living in Merthyr Tydfil Wales, you will get a nil reply. Even if you tick the 'exact' boxes. (Anyone who thinks women lack logic should check out Ancestry's software. )
Miss out the Merthyr Tydfil bit, and you get nine results. The first five are all John Williams in England. Number six should be your lucky number.
Brother Daniel is on the next census image.

Pam

That's brilliant thank you no wonder I never found anything ��

Although directly nextdoor is another John Sullivan old enough to be the John In questions father is this plausible or is it more likley he is an uncle etc.

Thank you once again

[lewissullivan]

Does anyone know any way to locate Patrick now we've found John and Catherine? I was thinking to look for a Daniel and a John born to a Patrick in the same area?

[Jomot1]

Although directly nextdoor is another John Sullivan old enough to be the John In questions father is this plausible or is it more likley he is an uncle etc.

The two families are living in the same property, not next door to each other, so it's possible they may be related, as you suggest.

The older John & wife Bridget have a son named Denis too, and his birth registration gives the mmn of Henesy. Mary born Q4 1851 has the mmn Henessy, and there was possibly also a son John born Q1 of 1851.

I can't find anything for son Timothy, apparently born Ireland c1846, but searching on Ancestry for any children of John Sullivan & Bridget Hennessy brings up the following: Lislee, Cork, 21 Feb 1848, Jeremiah Sullivan

Possibly the same family in 1851?
Bethesda Street, Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
John Sullivan 30 b Ireland
Biddy Sullivan Wife 30 b Ireland
Timothy Sullivan Son 6 b Ireland
Jeremiah Sullivan 3 born Ireland

They are lodging with a family called O'Brien, and at the same address is another Sullivan family (Cornelius, Mary & Biddy) and also a Catherine Hennessy aged 13.

IF this family is connected to 'your' Sullivan's (big 'IF'), then you possibly need to be looking in the Cork area.

[lewissullivan]

Very interesting thank you 😀. I have looked at parish records for cork but again there are so many John's born to Patrick's. Is there any tips to narrow down the search?
Lew.

[Jomot1]

Thankfully I haven't had to do much research in Ireland but I know from others that it is extremely difficult, especially around this time period.

As you have suggested, it may be that John Sr was uncle to John Jr, ie Patrick's brother, and perhaps Jeremiah was another brother (I see John & Catherine named a son Jeremiah). Unfortunately I don't think there are any short-cuts to be had, just hard-slog research both in Wales and in Ireland.

[lewissullivan]

It seems that way haha. I really don't know what to look for anymore though as we've been at it for a year as stated to no avail. I just can't seem to find the missing links.
Thanks again.
Lew.

[Dundee10]

A possible baptism for Catherine on 23 Sep 1843 in Cork which is in the ballpark if her age is to be believed.

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/v...e/229/mode/1up

Catherine, daughter of Thomas LYONS and Catherine AHERN, sponsors Daniel QUIN and Ellen SULLIVAN.

Who were the witnesses when John and Catherine married?

[lewissullivan]

https://censussearchforms.nationalarc...s.jsp?id=32540

With your professional opinions does any one think this is this possibly them?

Johns age is slightly out but Daniels is correct.
Patrick died according to the text shown in 1849 explaining why i cant locate him and him dying in 1849 fits with fits with Daniels birth occurring at the start of 1849. however, there is other writing that makes it hard to understand whos related to who.

Cheers,
Lew.