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  1. #1
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    hi my name is lana I'm from ashton under lyne in greater Manchester I'm wanting to find info on firstly my dad's side surname Sunderland and his mum's maiden name was Hurst I saw a post from years ago on here regarding Hurst family members my grandma was phyllis hurst I believe she had brother called Leonard Hurst grandma's dad was called Edward Hurst and believe married to phyllis my grandma's mother unsure if she passed or Edward left but believe in later life as my mum recalled Edward was with another women called Barbara my mum never meet phyllis Edwards first wife and doesn't recall much mention of her I do have pictures of both Edward phyllis my grandma as a young lady with my grandad Joseph Sunderland his parents where Alexander Sunderland and Louisa Sunderland he had 6 other siblings couple died at birth and believe all passed now,Arthur Sunderland,Elsie,I will write rest haven't got my book on me I know dad got cousins in west Yorkshire where Elsie lived David neutral Lesley I believe David did get in contact years ago as I posted on a site wanting info on Sunderland family he was very helpful never met him but he did call to see my mum and dad I believe at time unsure if he knows or not but my dad passed away nearly 5years ago now his sister Kathleen nightingale nee Sunderland passed away year after dad her husband Stan passed around five weeks after dad in 2013 so researching is more important to me know as my dad was my world although over years dad talked family so I know bits about his mum and dad my greats got old pictures of I think most family members and well I was born Sunderland and its my birth right to k.net 's more and also I'm thinking my brother is the last known male with Sunderland surname as dad was only male my brother is 45 and not yet had children so important for that reason too and well Hurst as well because my grandma was Hurst and cousin of mine found a letter amoung old photos to grandma apparently off older I believe sister think called eleanor but because immediate family who may of known have passed have no way of finding out but nothing covers years was ever mentioned about sister she was saying sorry for not being very nice to grandma when she was young asking for forgiveness of some kind ,never saw letter my dad's youngest sister in last one left has got now as cousin posted to her Janet baker nee Sunderland it was amount my late aunties things Christine morris/hadfield nee Sunderland, she passed in 2006 I want to write so much but I don't want to over power anyone who is reading this so I'll stop now and just say hello to everyone and will pop in and see if any post for me but if anyone has any kind of information regarding Sunderland and Hurst members or just info on members of family if he grateful. I do know we had a manor Sunderland manor in Cotswold got picture of wats left and sketch of door curious on that not researched much yet also Hurst side my grandma cousin was Geoff Hurst footballer who scored winning goal against Germany for England be nice to meet him he probably know more as no offence but older than me and heard seen meet more than me he was from ashton under lyne Hurst cross area where I live close by still most of life I want to find out where my great grandparents where buried as never know I'd like to go and chat do that with dad always chatting did his head in sometimes when was alive I still do it now he passed have a proper batter something winge but can hear dad in mind saying lana Jane shut up lol sorry just had to share x

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    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change. Pam Downes's Avatar
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    Hello Lana,

    Welcome to British-Genealogy.

    can hear dad in mind saying lana Jane shut up
    or at least pause for breath.

    You've over-done the names but forgot to give us a clue about dates. So we'll take this in baby steps.

    I've found a Joseph Sunderland marrying a Phyllis Hurst in September quarter 1947 in Ashton registration district.
    September quarter means between 1 July and 30 September.
    Ashton registration district means a place in this list.
    https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/ashton.html

    Would a marriage at that time fit in with the birth of your father, i.e. was he born about or after 1947?

    I will try and do a bit more digging, but I want to post each bit separately so it's easier to follow.

    When you reply to each message can you press the 'reply with quote' button that's shown in the bottom right-hand corner of each message. It will make it easier for everyone to know which message you're replying to.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

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    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change. Pam Downes's Avatar
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    Two more questions -
    1. I'm assuming that all your grandparents are now deceased, because we don't allow details of living people on the forum. Do you know when they died?

    2. Do you have any birth, marriage or death (BMD) certificates for your grandparents/great grandparents?
    If so, which ones? I don't need all the details yet, just brief details like 'marriage for Joseph and Phyllis in whatever year it was'.
    They will help to confirm anything I find.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

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    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change. Pam Downes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lala18 View Post
    I do have pictures of both Edward phyllis my grandma as a young lady with my grandad Joseph Sunderland his parents where Alexander Sunderland and Louisa Sunderland he had 6 other siblings couple died at birth and believe all passed now,
    If the 1947 marriage for Joseph Sunderland is correct I think he might have been born in 1925.
    There's a birth registration for a Joseph in June quarter, in Ashton registration district, mother's maiden name Simpson.

    That would fit Edward Sunderland and Louisa Simpson marrying in September quarter 1917, again Ashton registration district.

    These would appear to be their children:
    James A, birth registered 1918
    Mary E, 1919
    May, 1920
    Arthur, 1924
    Joseph, 1925
    Joyce, 1926
    Elsie, 1928
    All in Ashton registration district.

    That would fit with Joseph having six siblings, and death registrations for James A in 1918 and May in 1920 would again fit with the two who died young.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

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    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change. Pam Downes's Avatar
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    Further to my previous post about Louisa Sunderland nee Simpson and her children, the 1939 Register which is available on Findmypast, has a Louisa born in 1895 living in Ashton under Lyne with children Arthur born 1924, Joyce 1926, and Elsie 1928.

    FMP is a subscription site but you can take a free 14-day trial (make sure you untick the 'auto-renewal box) or it may be available for free at your local library. (Though the 1939 Register might not be included in the library version.) You can also buy credits if you only want to view a few records, or a month's Plus sub (again, untick the auto-renew box) will give you access to the 1939 Register.

    Based on Louisa's full birthdate in the 1939 Register (can't tell you more than the year because I'd be in breach of FMP's T&Cs) there is no 'obvious' birth registration for Louisa - i.e. local to Ashton. So to find out more about Louisa and her parents, etc, you will need a copy of her marriage certificate. If you haven't got one, then yell, and we can give you links to the GRO site.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

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    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change. Pam Downes's Avatar
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    Going to briefly summarise your family to make sure I've worked it out correctly. Aunts, uncles, cousins, etc are ignored for the time being.

    Your dad - his parents (unnamed but believed to be Joseph) Sunderland and Phyllis Hurst.

    Grandmother - Phyllis Hurst - parents Edward Hurst and Phyllis (unnamed, but likely to be Jones)
    Don't think you have mentioned the names of any of their parents. If you have, please correct me.

    Grandfather - (almost certainly Joseph) Sunderland - parents Alexander Sunderland and Louisa (almost certainly Simpson). Again, don't think you have mentioned the names of any of their parents. If you have, correct me.

    Going to leave things there for the moment because you've got a lot to digest, think about, and check that it seems to be correct.
    If you have any idea of when people were born it would be helpful. Think I have more info some of them but will wait to hear from you first.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

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    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change. Pam Downes's Avatar
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    By the way, although you were correct to post in the 'Introduce yourself' thread, because it's now to turned to an answering query thread, I've moved everything to the General Family History forum.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Downes View Post
    Hello Lana,

    Welcome to British-Genealogy.


    or at least pause for breath.

    You've over-done the names but forgot to give us a clue about dates. So we'll take this in baby steps.

    I've found a Joseph Sunderland marrying a Phyllis Hurst in September quarter 1947 in Ashton registration district.
    September quarter means between 1 July and 30 September.
    Ashton registration district means a place in this list.
    https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/ashton.html

    Would a marriage at that time fit in with the birth of your father, i.e. was he born about or after 1947?

    I will try and do a bit more digging, but I want to post each bit separately so it's easier to follow.

    When you reply to each message can you press the 'reply with quote' button that's shown in the bottom right-hand corner of each message. It will make it easier for everyone to know which message you're replying to.

    Pam
    Yes that's my grandma and grandad I got to my grandads father and mother which believe Alexander and Louisa Sunderland and my grandmas mum and dad dad Edward and Phyllis Hurst thank you pam x

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    Quote Originally Posted by lala18 View Post
    Yes that's my grandma and grandad I got to my grandads father and mother which believe Alexander and Louisa Sunderland and my grandmas mum and dad dad Edward and Phyllis Hurst thank you pam x
    To go back further, and to go back with accuracy, you now need to order BMD (birth, marriage, death) certificates if you haven't already got them Always order direct from either the local registration office or the GRO, never through a third party site who will charge you an arm and a leg.(GRO charge £9.25 for a full certificate, local registration office possibly a couple of quid more.)
    This is the page of the GRO site that you will need if you've never ordered a certificate from them before because you have to register.
    https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/c...ates/Login.asp

    To order the marriage certificate of Alexander Sunderland and Louisa Simpson you need enter only Alexander's name, and then the other references (GRO Index reference) are
    year - 1917
    quarter - either September or 3rd (been a while since I ordered any certificates so I can't remember which)
    registration district - Ashton
    volume number - 8d
    page number - 720

    Before we start with Edward and Phyllis' marriage, a question about your granny Phyllis who married Joseph Sunderland. Did she die in Huddersfield in 2000? If so, her date of birth on her death certificate was given as 18 Jan 1929. That throws a spanner in the works, as the 'obvious' birth registration of a Phyllis Hurst in 1929 was in September quarter. If she was born in January then her birth should have been registered in March quarter. Even today, mistakes do happen with registrations so hopefully you can confirm Phyllis' birthday.

    Are you at all familiar with censuses, looking at sites such as FreeBMD, FMP (Find my past), etc?

    Off-topic - Pleased you got the stuff mentioned in the PM sorted.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

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    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change. Pam Downes's Avatar
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    Sooner than leave all these details on a piece of paper which I know I will lose , I'll post them as I'm fairly certain they're correct. However I cannot emphasise enough that you need to get a copy of Alexander and Louisa's marriage certificate. It will confirm Alexander's age, and hopefully their father's names and occupations.

    Death registration for Alexander Sunderland, aged 35, in June quarter 1929, Ashton registration district.

    Based on that, Alexander in the 1911 census.
    Census reference: RG14/24344 SN283
    Living 54 Charles Street Ashton-Under-Lyne
    William Henry GILL, head, 31, foundry labourer, born Manchester
    Margarett (sic) Ann, wife, 28, housewife, Salford
    Ernest James, son, 5, Ashton under Lyne
    Margarett (sic) Ann, daur, 3, Reddish
    Ruth, daur, 9 months, Denton
    Edith SUNDERLAND, sister in law, 22, fiber(sic) draughter brush work Ashton under Lyne
    Alexander SUNDERLAND, brother in law, 16, bobbinger, Ashton under Lyne

    (William Henry Gill and Margaret Ann Sunderland's marriage was registered June quarter 1905, Ashton registration district.)

    1901 census
    Census reference: RG13/3799 folio 12 page 16
    Living 18 Gordon Street, Waterloo, Ashton under Lyne
    Ann E Sunderland, wife, mar, 33, Manchester
    Olive, daur, 14, feeder at wadding works, (Waterloo) Ashton under Lyne
    Edith, daur, 12, (Waterloo) Ashton under Lyne
    Alic (sic), son, 6, (Waterloo) Ashton under Lyne

    1891 census
    Census reference: RG12/3278 folio 60 p27
    Living 23 Orange Street, Ashton under Lyne
    Alexander GOODFELLOW, wid, 61, brushmaker, Manchester
    Ann E SUNDERLAND, daur, mar, 27, brushmaker, Manchester
    Olivia, granddaur, 7, scholar, Manchester
    Margaret, granddaur 5, scholar, Manchester
    Edith, granddaur, 3, Manchester

    Marriage John William Sunderland and Ann Ellen Goodfellow registered March quarter 1883 Ashton registration district. Remaining details for ordering a copy of the marriage certificate from the GRO - volume number 8d page number 545.
    (They married at St James Ashton under Lyne 11 March 1883.)
    John's father said to be another John William; Ann's father Alexander.

    John never appears on a census with Ann so I have no idea of his age, and without that he is impossible to trace further back. You need a copy of the marriage certificate which will hopefully give his age.

    Ann is much easier.

    1881 census
    Census reference: RG11/3963 folio 95 page 54
    Living 2 Senior Street, Salford
    Alexander GOODFELLOW, widower, 51, bricklayers labour, unemployed, Manchester
    Ann E, daur, 17, cotton reeler, Manchester
    Lawrence, son, 21, labourer letter-press printer, Manchester

    1871 census
    Census reference: RG10/4045 folio 8 page 10
    Living Marsdens Court, Fennell Street, civil parish of Cathedral, Manchester,
    Alexander GOODFELLOW, widower, 40, brushmaker, Manchester
    Lawrence, son, 13, scholar, Manchester
    Ann E, daur, 9, scholar, Manchester
    Herbert, son, 7, scholar, Manchester
    plus two lodgers.

    1861 census
    Census reference: RG9/2961 folio 76 page 42
    Living 177, Charter Street, Manchester
    Alexander GOODFELLOW, head, 25, hair drawer, Manchester
    Sarah Ann, wife, 23,
    Olive, daur, 5, Manchester
    Lawrence, son, 3, Manchester

    Going to stop there with the census for the time being.

    Alexander Goodfellow married Sarah Ann Driver December quarter 1855 Manchester registration district. They married in Manchester Cathedral. The parish registers are probably held in the Archives at Manchester Central Library. Check before you go, but if you can get there you should be able to get a photocopy which may have their signatures on.

    Ann Ellen Goodfellow's birth registration is actually recorded as Hannah Ellen, September quarter 1861 Manchester registration district volume number 8d page number 279.
    She was baptised as Hannah Ellen on 21 August 1861 at St MIchael's Manchester. Copy of the entry in the baptism register is available on FMP.
    I haven't looked but her siblings baptisms may also be available on FMP.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

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