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  1. #21
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    Default Big thank you

    Just want say a big thank you to loobylou in finding
    my great grandmas grave I'm going to have a look and post picture on here n thank you again pam enjoy your day x
    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Downes View Post
    I've got to concentrate on getting ready to go out at the moment so won't be able to give a more detailed reply until later this afternoon.
    In the mean time, just want to stress that it was loobylou who found the burials (and confirmed all the details about the Archives stuff), not me.

    Will 'speak' later as I've got more stuff ready but thought I ought to give you a chance to look at (even if you can't thoroughly digest it all in one go ) what I'd found so far.

    Pam

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Downes View Post
    I've got to concentrate on getting ready to go out at the moment so won't be able to give a more detailed reply until later this afternoon.
    In the mean time, just want to stress that it was loobylou who found the burials (and confirmed all the details about the Archives stuff), not me.

    Will 'speak' later as I've got more stuff ready but thought I ought to give you a chance to look at (even if you can't thoroughly digest it all in one go ) what I'd found so far.

    Pam
    Wow Pam that is an immense amount of research that you undertook to address the initial query - I am really impressed.
    Now I must scratch my head and see if there is a massive brickwall for you to knock down for me ...................................

    Just kidding
    David

  3. #23
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change. Pam Downes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Tuson View Post
    Wow Pam that is an immense amount of research that you undertook to address the initial query - I am really impressed.
    Thank you for your kind words, David.

    Now I must scratch my head and see if there is a massive brickwall for you to knock down for me ...................................

    Just kidding.
    David
    Don't scratch your head too hard. I have limited powers of expertise, and rarely stray out of my comfort zone.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  4. #24
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change. Pam Downes's Avatar
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    OK Lana, I'll start with an updated version of message #6 re your family tree.

    Your dad - his parents - Joseph Sunderland and Phyllis Hurst.

    Grandmother - Phyllis Hurst - parents Edward Hurst and Phyllis Jones.
    Haven't yet done anything further with Phyllis and her ancestors..

    Grandfather - Joseph Sunderland - parents Alexander Sunderland and Louisa Simpson.

    Great grandparents (1) - parents of Joseph Sunderland - John William Sunderland and Hannah Ellen (a.k.a.Ann) Goodfellow.

    Great grandparents (2) - parents of Louisa Simpson - Joseph Simpson and Louisa Buckley.

    Great-great-grandparents (1) parents of John William Sunderland - currently not known as no idea of when John was born.

    Great-great-grandparents (2) parents of Hannah Ellen (a.k.a.Ann) Goodfellow are Alexander Goodfellow and Sarah Ann Driver.

    Great-great-grandparents (3) parents of Joseph Simpson are William Simpson and Mary Hannah Dickinson.

    Great-great-grandparents (4) parents of Louisa Buckley are currently unresearched.

    The recommendation when I first began family history was that you obtained BMD certificates for your direct ancestors to prove the connections/handed-down family information. I've not seen anything to contradict that - besides which certificates tell you so much more than the basic fact that granny Smith was born on 2 February 1884. You don't have to buy all the certificates in one go - just say in your notes that you're waiting to order xyz certificate to prove someone's age/middle name/father's name/etc.
    The good news is that since I started literally hundreds of millions of records are now available online so although you might have to pay to access those records via a subscription site it's usually a lot cheaper than visiting the archives in the county of your ancestors. (Except for the jammy few whose ancestors never moved more than 10 miles up the road from where they're now living, and the archives is in the same town. )

    You won't find English and Welsh birth and death certificates online but if people married in a church or chapel you can often find the parish/church registers online whihc will save you forking out £9.25 for a marriage certificate. The bonus being that you can often see your ancestors signature which you don't see if you order a copy from the registrar's office.

    I'll go through your ancestors marriages and see which certificates you can get cheaply. For some of these I have to thank geneius and her finds in the posts #25, 26, and 27.

    Alexander Sunderland and Louisa Simpson.
    Married 20 Sep 1917 at Christ Church, Ashton under Lyne.
    I would think that the PRs (parish registers) are held at Tameside/Ashton Local Studies but the site is currently down.

    John William Sunderland and Hannah Ellen (a.k.a.Ann) Goodfellow.
    Married at St James Ashton under Lyne 11 March 1883, Ann being listed as Ann Ellen Goodfellow. Fairly certain that this will also be found at the local studies.
    ADDED: After a prompt by almach (see post #28) marriage found on Ancestry in their collection Manchester, England, Church of England marriages and banns 1754-1930.
    Ancestry free to view at Local Studies office.

    Joseph Simpson and Louisa Buckley.
    Married at St Peter's, Ashton under Lyne.
    Certificate available free, online.
    https://www.familysearch.org/
    Create free account.
    Once you've signed in, click 'search' in the top banner.
    Then type Louisa Buckley,
    Click 'marriage', then enter Ashton under Lyne, England as place, and 1884 in both date boxes.

    It's probably the second result which has a little camera symbol beside it. Click on that.
    You might need to enlarge the picture a little but you should get - bingo!
    And you can download it.

    William Simpson and Mary Hannah Dickinson
    Married June quarter 1855, Stockport registration district.
    They married at Orchard Street Chapel, Stockport on 16 April 1855. There's part of a copy of the marriage certificate on a family tree on Ancestry, but personally I'd still get my own copy when funds allowed. Because you know the church and date you could order direct from the local registrar's office for £10.
    https://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/
    Alternatively order direct from the GRO (link in post #9) for £9.25. GRO reference details are Stockport registration district, June or second quarter 1855, volume number 8a page number 118.

    I'm sure that that there's at least one marriage I've omitted but I'm going to quit while I'm ahead.
    ADDED Found it. Post #11. Marriage of Alexander Goodfellow and Sarah Ann Driver, parents of Hannah Ellen/Ann Ellen Goodfellow.
    Just to confuse everyone, the Manchester data sets are not the same. One is Cathedral, the other is Parish Registers. I have listed their full titles.

    Remember that you should be able to search a site for free, only paying when you want to view a record.
    In the meantime, here's a few free sites for you to look at.
    https://www.familysearch.org/search/...INGDOM_IRELAND
    https://www.freebmd.org.uk/
    https://www.freereg.org.uk/
    https://www.lan-opc.org.uk/indexp.html

    I spoke earlier about the damaged 1851 census for Manchester.
    https://www.1851-unfilmed.org.uk/intro.htm

    Pam
    Last edited by Pam Downes; 23-04-2018 at 2:15 AM. Reason: re'sOne
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  5. #25
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    #24 Pam Downes Trying to fill in some gaps

    Grandfather - Joseph Sunderland - parents Alexander Sunderland and Louisa Simpson.
    Marriage: 1 Apr 1894 St Peter, Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire, England
    Joseph Simpson - 29, Collier, Bachelor, 174 Margaret St.
    Louisa Buckley - 28, Spinster, 54 Margaret St.
    Groom's Father: William Simpson, Deceased, Weaver
    Bride's Father: Frederick Buckley, Railway Gaurde
    Witness: William Marshall; Martha Marshall
    Married by Banns by: J. M. Muzzell Curate
    Register: Marriages 1891 - 1897, Page 96, Entry 191
    Source: LDS Film 2355759

    Baptism: 19 Sep 1894 St James, Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire, England
    Walter Simpson - [Child] of Joseph Simpson & Louisa
    Born: 27 Jul 1894
    Abode: 8 Brannah Street
    Occupation: Collier
    Baptised by: J. Smith Curate
    Register: Baptisms 1886 - 1898, Entry 1067
    Source: LDS Family Search

    Baptism: 20 Jan 1897 St Margaret of Antioch, Hollinwood, Lancashire, England
    Louisa Simpson - [Child] of Joseph Simpson & Louisa
    Born: 18 Nov 1896
    Abode: 45 Maple Street
    Occupation: Collier
    Baptised by: G. Garnons Bird
    Register: Baptisms 1892 - 1904, Page 72, Entry 572
    Source: LDS Family Search

  6. #26
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    Grandfather - Joseph Sunderland - parents Alexander Sunderland and Louisa Simpson.
    There is a tree on line with a marriage cert for Alexander & Louisa Simpson

    20 September 1917 Christ Church Ashton

    Alexander Sunderland age 22 employ Carter father-blank-

    Louisa Simpson 21 spinster Card room hand father Joseph Simpson

    Both give their address as 79 Oldham Street Ashton

    Marriage was by Licence

    Witnesses JC Harding EC Miller & E Summersgill

  7. #27
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    Great grandparents (1) - parents of Joseph Sunderland - John William Sunderland and Hannah Ellen (a.k.a.Ann) Goodfellow.
    Name: John William Sunderland
    Gender: Male
    Event Type: Banns (Bann)
    Marriage Banns Date: 4 Mar 1883
    Marriage Banns Place: Ashton under Lyne, St James the Apostle, Lancashire, England
    Parish as it Appears: Ashton Under Lyne St James Parish Church
    Spouse: Anne Ellen Goodfellow

    Reference Number: L163/1/5/1

    Name: Mary Ann Simpson
    Age: 52
    Birth Date: abt 1827
    Burial Date: 8 Nov 1879
    Burial Place: Hurst, St John The Evangelist, Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire, England
    Parish as it Appears: Hurst
    Reference Number: L57/1/3/2
    Archive Roll: 551

    Name: William Simpson
    Birth Year: abt 1812
    Death Age: 69
    Burial Date: 27 Jul 1881
    Burial Parish: Whalley, St Mary and All Saints, Lancashire, England
    Register Type: Parish Register
    Reference Number: PR 55/14

    Name: John William Sunderland
    Event Type: Banns (Bann)
    Marriage Banns Date: 4 Mar 1883
    Marriage Banns Place: Ashton under Lyne, St James the Apostle, Lancashire, England
    Parish as it Appears: Ashton Under Lyne St James Parish Church
    Spouse: Anne Ellen Goodfellow

    Reference Number: L163/1/5/1
    Archive Roll: 847

    1861 RG 9; Piece: 2886; Folio: 89; Page: 30
    1 Perry Street Salford

    Margaret Sunderland 25 seamstress
    Webster Sunderland 2
    John W Sunderland 3/12

    Name: John William Sunderland
    Birth Date: 30 Dec 1860
    Baptism Date: 22 Sep 1861
    Parish: Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
    Mother's name: Margaret Sunderland spinster of Salford

    Name: Margaret Sunderland
    Birth Date: 28 Feb 1836
    Baptism Date: 11 Sep 1836
    Parish: Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
    Father's name: John Sunderland
    Mother's name: Jane Sunderland
    Archive Roll: 763

    1863 Margaret marries Fred O’Kell

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Downes View Post
    Marriage John William Sunderland and Ann Ellen Goodfellow registered March quarter 1883 Ashton registration district. Remaining details for ordering a copy of the marriage certificate from the GRO - volume number 8d page number 545.
    (They married at St James Ashton under Lyne 11 March 1883.)
    John's father said to be another John William; Ann's father Alexander
    Pam
    Hi Pam, here's more details re: the marriage.

    John William Sunderland/Ann Ellen Goodfellow
    Married March 11th 1883 at St James the Apostle, Ashton under Lyne (parish record on Ancestry)
    JWS 22yrs, occupation: slotter, abode: Winter St, father JWS (previous research found by Pam suggests this was a fabrication)
    AEG 20yrs, Winter St, father Alexander a brush maker,
    Witnesses: Walter Sunderland and Sarah Ann Brown.

    It's always easy coming late to a thread, as so much of the hard slog is done. I therefore congratulate you Pam on all you found from an opening post which sounded difficult to unravel, but you got there.........well done
    Alma

  9. #29
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change. Pam Downes's Avatar
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    #notahappybunny
    I've just lost another post. This computer is driving me nuts. It types letters wherever it feels like doing, deletes whole paragraphs, and even complete posts. My son says it must be because I'm catching keys as I type but what key must I be catching to delete so much stuff? I'm having to type away from the forum, and then copy-and-paste almost paragraph by paragraph.


    As I said . . . . .


    Hi Alma,

    When I read your post I thought 'that sounds familiar'. I reckon that's the marriage I found listed on Ancestry under 'Manchester'.

    I started by keeping a careful list of everything I'd found, searched, and posted, but then it went a bit off-piste, and without reading (as opposed to skimming) through every single post again I can't remember exactly what's what. :crazy

    It's always easy coming late to a thread, as so much of the hard slog is done. I therefore congratulate you Pam on all you found from an opening post which sounded difficult to unravel, but you got there.........well done
    It was surprisingly easy once I'd got rid of all the surplus brothers, sisters, etc, to follow the lines, but thank you for your kind words.
    And I'm the other way round - I usually find it difficult to pick up a thread if a lot of work has been done in it. (Cock-eyed, and cack-handed, that's me. )

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  10. #30

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    #notahappybunny
    I've just lost another post. This computer is driving me nuts. It types letters wherever it feels like doing, deletes whole paragraphs, and even complete posts. My son says it must be because I'm catching keys as I type but what key must I be catching to delete so much stuff? I'm having to type away from the forum, and then copy-and-paste almost paragraph by paragraph.
    I have the very same problem, Pam. Drives me nuts. Is yours a laptop and new? Mine's fairly new, I bought it about three months or so ago and disliked it from the off, so didn't use it until one sad day my old trusty laptop died, been using this one for a couple of weeks or so. One thing I've noticed is I lose type if my arms or wrists are resting on the computer while I type, but this didn't happen with my old one. And it's difficult typing with my wrists in the air! If you find a fix, please let me know. I see the day when I chuck it out of the window...........it's so frustrating.
    Alma

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