new on here

[Pam Downes]

Re the marriage of Alexander Goodfellow and Sarah Driver at Manchester Cathedral, I'm not so sure about the Cathedral's parish registers being at the Archives.
https://www.manchester.gov.uk/directo...s/category/785
Do phone and check before you go.

Ten minutes later . . .
Don't bother to go to Manchester Archives. The Cathedral registers are not there.
https://www.manchestercathedral.org/history/archives

If you search on Ancestry for Alexander by name only you might need to scroll down a bit as there are two marriage entries. One is just a transcription of the basic details, the other is a copy of the register. That's found in the Manchester, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930 (Cathedral) dataset.

You might also be lucky with the parish registers for St James Ashton. (Marriage of John William Sunderland and Ann Ellen Goodfellow.) They're held at Tameside Local Studies and Archives Centre, but the list is set out so badly it's difficult to tell which records refer to which parish.
https://www.tameside.gov.uk/archives...history/parish
Scroll down to the bottom of the page for address and contact details.
I suspect it might be quite local to you, and if so would save you £9.25 for the certificate from the GRO.

Ancestry might also be free at the Tameside Archives. Not sure about the technicalities (I'm totally useless at techie stuff!) of being able to print out something from Ancestry at a library - you might have to take a USB stick and download stuff to that.

Pam

[loobylou]

Re the marriage of John Goodfellow and Sarah Driver at Manchester Cathedral, I'm not so sure about the Cathedral's parish registers being at the Archives.
https://www.manchester.gov.uk/directo...s/category/785
Do phone and check before you go.

Ten minutes later . . .
Don't bother to go to Manchester Archives. The Cathedral registers are not there.
https://www.manchestercathedral.org/history/archives

If you search on Ancestry for Alexander by name only you might need to scroll down a bit as there are two marriage entries. One is just a transcription of the basic details, the other is a copy of the register. That's found in the Manchester, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930 (Cathedral) dataset.

You might also be lucky with the parish registers for St James Ashton. (Marriage of John William Sunderland and Ann Ellen Goodfellow.) They're held at Tameside Local Studies and Archives Centre, but the list is set out so badly it's difficult to tell which records refer to which parish.
https://www.tameside.gov.uk/archives...history/parish
Scroll down to the bottom of the page for address and contact details.
I suspect it might be quite local to you, and if so would save you £9.25 for the certificate from the GRO.

Ancestry might also be free at the Tameside Archives. Not sure about the technicalities (I'm totally useless at techie stuff!) of being able to print out something from Ancestry at a library - you might have to take a USB stick and download stuff to that.

Pam

Ancestry and Find my Past both free at Ashton Local studies library and printing is available at 10p per sheet.

[loobylou]

Ancestry and Find my Past both free at Ashton Local studies library and printing is available at 10p per sheet.

1939 register is also available free at Ashton Local Studies. Certificates can be applied for at Dukinfield Town Hall.
I found a burial for Joseph Simpson 28/9/1939 age 73 Section P grave 225 Ashton Cemetery in the same grave is Louisa Sunderland 24/6/1976 aged 80

[Pam Downes]

Thanks for the 'local knowledge' information, loobylou.

Not that it proves entirely 'helpful'. Louisa's birthdate on her death registration is given as 18 November 1895, which matches a previous record I found.
There's a Louisa Simpson in the 1901 census living with parents Joseph (so far, so good) and Louisa, plus brother Walter. Walter's 6, Louisa 4.
Birth registrations - Walter, September quarter 1894 Ashton registration district, mother's maiden name Buckley.
Louisa, December quarter 1896 Oldham registration district, mother's maiden name Buckley.

Marriage Joseph Simpson and Louisa Buckley, June quarter 1894, Ashton registration district.

Everything else, down to the birth quarter, 'fits', so I can only assume that Louisa thought she was a year older than she actually was.

Pam

[Pam Downes]

Re my previous post #14 -

1901 census
census reference RG13/3812 folio 24 page 39
Living 3 Sarah Street Oldham
Joseph Simpson, head, 33, coalminer, born Hurst
Louisa, wife, 33, Peterboro (to which has been added in different handwriting -Northants)
Walter, son, 6, Hurst
Louisa, daur, 4, Hollinwood

Fast forward to 1911.
census reference RG14/24330 SN67
252 Higher KIng Street, Hurst, Ashton under Lyne
William LAMBERT, head, 59, iron forge labourer, Dukinfield
Elizabeth, wife, 58, Manchester
Thomas, son, 18, cotton spinner, Ashton under Lyne
William, son, 16, cloth warehouse bookkeeper, Ashton under Lyne
Louisa SIMPSON, niece, 14, cotton card room, Hollinwood
William Simpson, nephew, 47, cotton weaver, Ashton under Lyne
James Lambert, son, (mar) 23, cotton spinner, Ashton under Lyne
Annie Lambert, daur in law, (mar), 20, cotton drawing room tenter, Ashton under Lyne
William Lambert, nephew, 5 months, Ashton under Lyne

Meanwhile Joseph Simpson is a boarder, aged 43, coal miner hewer, born Hurst, and allegedly single, living in the household of Alice Flitcroft in Hindley.
Census ref RG14/23025 SN153

And thanks to FMP I've finally twigged what 'Whillese' is supposed to be - Whittlesey (which is near Peterborough), so this is Louisa in 1911.
Census ref RG14/24664 SN335
Living 1 Jepheys St Rochdale
Louisa Simpson, 43, widow (sic), weaver in mill, Whillese
Walter, son, 17, spinner in mill, Ashton
Louisa wrote that she'd been married for 18 years, and had had three children one of whom had died. Will have to look again for the third one.

Pam

[Pam Downes]

This is going off at a tangent to prove the relationship between Louisa Simpson and William Lambert as uncle and niece in the 1911 census, though the link is actually through William's wife, Elizabeth nee Dickinson. (Lana, you will need a very large sheet of paper to draw this tree and keep track of everyone. )

1901 census
Census reference RG13/3800 folio 183 page12
109 Queen Street, Hurst
William LAMBERT, head, 49, labourer ironwork, Dukinfield
Elizabeth, wife, 48, Hulme
Mary, daur, 18 Ashton
James, son, 13, Ashton
Thomas, son, 8, Ashton
William, son, 6, Ashton
Eliza B Tong, visitor, 10 months, Cheshire

1891
Census reference RG12/3294 folio 8 page 10
109 Queen Street, Hurst
William LAMBERT, head, 39, forge labourer, Dukinfield
Elizabeth, wife, 38, Hulme
Harry, son, 12, Ashton under Lyne
Mary, daur, 8, Ashton under Lyne
James, son, 3, Ashton under Lyne

1881
Census reference RG12/3294 folio 8 page 10
134 Alexandra Street, Ashton under Lyne
William LAMBERT, head, 29, felt hat finisher, Dukinfield
Elizabeth, wife, 28, Dukinfield
Harry, son, 2, Ashton

Marriage William Lambert and Elizabeth Dickinson December quarter 1873 Ashton registration district.
Birth registrations Mary Lambert, March quarter 1883 and William Lambert March quarter 1895, both in Ashton under Lyne registration district, both with mother's maiden name Dickinson.


Two birds with one stone in this census.

1871
Census reference RG10/4071 folio 18 page 29
79 Queen Street, Ashton
William SIMPSON, head, 52, cotton weaver, Bury Lancashire
Mary H, wife, 42, Woolwich Kent
Ellen, daur, 18,
David, son, 15,
John, son, 12,
Edward, son, 10,
William, son, 8,
Henry, son, 6,
Joseph Simpson, son, 4,
Hannah, daur, 3,
Maria, daur, 10 months,
Elizabeth DICKINSON, boarder, 17, Manchester
Simpson children all born Ashton

1861
Census reference RG10/4071 folio 18 page 29
30 Hurst Knowl, Ashton under Lyne
William SIMPSON, head, 42, cotton weaver, Bury Lancashire
Mary H, wife, 32, London Middlesex
Ellen, daur, 9,
David, son, 5,
John, son, 2,
Edward, son, 1
James DICKINSON, brother-in-law, 14, Manchester.
Simpson children all born Ashton.

William Simpson married Mary Hannah Dickinson, June quarter 1855, Stockport registration district.
Birth registrations David Simpson December quarter 1855, mother's maiden name Dickenson; and Edward SImpson, March quarter 1860, mother's maiden name Dickinson, both in Ashton under Lyne registration district.

At the moment I can't easily find Elizabeth Dickinson in the 1861 census.
And there are possible problems with the 1851 census because much of the Manchester area pages were damaged because I was hoping to find James and Elizabeth together to prove they were brother and sister, with Mary being their elder sister.

Pam

[Pam Downes]

Going one census further back with William Simpson, father of Joseph in the 1871 census (see previous post) this is him in 1851.

Census reference HO107/2238 folio 365 page 12
44 Queen Street, Ashton under Lyne
William SImpson, head, 30, (something in cotton mill, think it might be power loom weaver), Bury Lancs
Ellen, wife, 28, Stockport Cheshire
Elizabeth, daur, 3, Ashton under Lyne
Hannah, daur, 2, Ashton under Lyne
and five lodgers

William Simpson married Ellen Grundy September quarter 1846 Stockport registration district.
Birth registration of daughter Elizabeth Simpson, June quarter 1847 Ashton and Oldham registration district, mother's maiden name Grundy.
It's my belief that the Ellen Simpson aged 9 in the 1861 census is the daughter of William and Ellen, but I can find no birth registration for her.

William's wife, Ellen died aged 29, death registration June quarter Ashton under Lyne registration district.

Pam

[lala18]

hi pam in regards to information

this is info i have :

joseph sunderland married phyllis sunderland(hurst)

joseph dad was called alexander sunderland and married louisa sunderland(simpson)
had i believe six siblings two died at birth james and either may or mary, alexander died at age 34 years i believe joseph first address was 101 taunton road ashton-under-lyne i havent got my book on me at moment with info in as at friends tonight.
alexander dad was i beleive john sunderland and his wife was anna sunderland(goodfellow), im not 100% but think a abraham sunderland was john sunderland dad but havent checked that out yet.

Phyllis sunderland hurst)who married joseph sunderland
her mum was called phyllis also she married edward hurst but what i can see is that phyllis hurst died when gave birth to my grandma phyllis hurst(sunderland) on 23rd july 1929.
Phyllis who died in 1929 maiden name Jones. Edward went onto marrying i think a florence, but i havent researched much into grandma side yet as im concentrating on my dads dads side first the sunderland surname more so than the hurst surname but want to link both as want find out if my grandma had a sister do know had a brother Lenard hurst married to barbara hurst, hehas passed away now.

joseph and phyllis had 4 children kathleen, christine, kevin and janet sunderland kathleen christine and kevin have passed away.

Arthur sunderland was joeseph sunderlands brother i think he was born 1924 joe was born 1929 died 1984 arthur died i think either 2006 -2009 unsure if he had children or not as if had boy still another sunderland out there not just my brother so be good to know that.

i hope what info ive given can help i will be looking myself too and dig deeper but i apreciate the help as not much understanding on census and how understand them to be honest

Going one census further back with William Simpson, father of Joseph in the 1871 census (see previous post) this is him in 1851.

Census reference HO107/2238 folio 365 page 12
44 Queen Street, Ashton under Lyne
William SImpson, head, 30, (something in cotton mill, think it might be power loom weaver), Bury Lancs
Ellen, wife, 28, Stockport Cheshire
Elizabeth, daur, 3, Ashton under Lyne
Hannah, daur, 2, Ashton under Lyne
and five lodgers

William Simpson married Ellen Grundy September quarter 1846 Stockport registration district.
Birth registration of daughter Elizabeth Simpson, June quarter 1847 Ashton and Oldham registration district, mother's maiden name Grundy.
It's my belief that the Ellen Simpson aged 9 in the 1861 census is the daughter of William and Ellen, but I can find no birth registration for her.

William's wife, Ellen died aged 29, death registration June quarter Ashton under Lyne registration district.

Pam

[lala18]

This is going off at a tangent to prove the relationship between Louisa Simpson and William Lambert as uncle and niece in the 1911 census, though the link is actually through William's wife, Elizabeth nee Dickinson. (Lana, you will need a very large sheet of paper to draw this tree and keep track of everyone. )

1901 census
Census reference RG13/3800 folio 183 page12
109 Queen Street, Hurst
William LAMBERT, head, 49, labourer ironwork, Dukinfield
Elizabeth, wife, 48, Hulme
Mary, daur, 18 Ashton
James, son, 13, Ashton
Thomas, son, 8, Ashton
William, son, 6, Ashton
Eliza B Tong, visitor, 10 months, Cheshire

1891
Census reference RG12/3294 folio 8 page 10
109 Queen Street, Hurst
William LAMBERT, head, 39, forge labourer, Dukinfield
Elizabeth, wife, 38, Hulme
Harry, son, 12, Ashton under Lyne
Mary, daur, 8, Ashton under Lyne
James, son, 3, Ashton under Lyne

1881
Census reference RG12/3294 folio 8 page 10
134 Alexandra Street, Ashton under Lyne
William LAMBERT, head, 29, felt hat finisher, Dukinfield
Elizabeth, wife, 28, Dukinfield
Harry, son, 2, Ashton

Marriage William Lambert and Elizabeth Dickinson December quarter 1873 Ashton registration district.
Birth registrations Mary Lambert, March quarter 1883 and William Lambert March quarter 1895, both in Ashton under Lyne registration district, both with mother's maiden name Dickinson.


Two birds with one stone in this census.

1871
Census reference RG10/4071 folio 18 page 29
79 Queen Street, Ashton
William SIMPSON, head, 52, cotton weaver, Bury Lancashire
Mary H, wife, 42, Woolwich Kent
Ellen, daur, 18,
David, son, 15,
John, son, 12,
Edward, son, 10,
William, son, 8,
Henry, son, 6,
Joseph Simpson, son, 4,
Hannah, daur, 3,
Maria, daur, 10 months,
Elizabeth DICKINSON, boarder, 17, Manchester
Simpson children all born Ashton

1861
Census reference RG10/4071 folio 18 page 29
30 Hurst Knowl, Ashton under Lyne
William SIMPSON, head, 42, cotton weaver, Bury Lancashire
Mary H, wife, 32, London Middlesex
Ellen, daur, 9,
David, son, 5,
John, son, 2,
Edward, son, 1
James DICKINSON, brother-in-law, 14, Manchester.
Simpson children all born Ashton.

William Simpson married Mary Hannah Dickinson, June quarter 1855, Stockport registration district.
Birth registrations David Simpson December quarter 1855, mother's maiden name Dickenson; and Edward SImpson, March quarter 1860, mother's maiden name Dickinson, both in Ashton under Lyne registration district.

At the moment I can't easily find Elizabeth Dickinson in the 1861 census.
And there are possible problems with the 1851 census because much of the Manchester area pages were damaged because I was hoping to find James and Elizabeth together to prove they were brother and sister, with Mary being their elder sister.

Pam

just managing rap my head around all this its crazy as my grandma maiden name was hurst and louisa mother of grandads mum was a hurst and louisa was a buckley before a simpson, which is crazy too as my grandma remarried after joeseph sunderland and married a william buckley who she was with till she died in 2006 3rd january looks like went round in massive circle but with families opposite omg its hard to get head round but as im reading im getting an imagine of whos who i certainally will need very very large piece of paper im jotting everything down but im thinking im going have to start pecing it together now as book as info in but so much coming in now i need to get the order going thank so much pam, i cant believe you found louisa sunderland buried in ashton cem which im assuming thats hurst cross cemetary as only one now, she buried with her father joeseph simpson, so assume his name would be 1st on grave stone im going to find plot and take picture and show you, this is great thank you

[Pam Downes]

just managing rap my head around all this its crazy as my grandma maiden name was hurst and louisa mother of grandads mum was a hurst and louisa was a buckley before a simpson, which is crazy too as my grandma remarried after joeseph sunderland and married a william buckley who she was with till she died in 2006 3rd january looks like went round in massive circle but with families opposite omg its hard to get head round but as im reading im getting an imagine of whos who i certainally will need very very large piece of paper im jotting everything down but im thinking im going have to start pecing it together now as book as info in but so much coming in now i need to get the order going thank so much pam, i cant believe you found louisa sunderland buried in ashton cem which im assuming thats hurst cross cemetary as only one now, she buried with her father joeseph simpson, so assume his name would be 1st on grave stone im going to find plot and take picture and show you, this is great thank you

I've got to concentrate on getting ready to go out at the moment so won't be able to give a more detailed reply until later this afternoon.
In the mean time, just want to stress that it was loobylou who found the burials (and confirmed all the details about the Archives stuff), not me.

Will 'speak' later as I've got more stuff ready but thought I ought to give you a chance to look at (even if you can't thoroughly digest it all in one go ) what I'd found so far.

Pam