Onions mystery

[elsinore]

Where did you find cemetery and plot number? They did move a lot.

https://bellefontainecemetery.org/

Peter

[Ronaldmac]

What is frustrating is that you're seemingly rejecting our offers of help. You have certain information on William and Harriet which you could easily tell us, instead of which you seem to expect us to look for it ourselves. Which not all of us can do - we all have limits on the information we can access (e.g. I have very limited access to the US censuses) and knowledge of certain areas (both geographically and of research).

So, where has your knowledge of Wiliam and Hannah's death dates come from? Where were they living at the time of the various US census? Where were their children living in the US census?

Are you searching for their death records, or burials because they are not the same thing? Living in the US you should be more familiar with stuff such as death registrations than UK-based people, so where exactly have you looked? Are you assuming that all states have all recorded deaths prior to possibly 1925 online? And if so, have you checked that your assumption is correct?

Pam

I did not intend to cause problems with my search. We have been researching this family and seem to come to dead ends. I have found them on 1860 US census. The death dates are mostly from trees created by others on Family Search. I understand there are issues trying to access information from censuses etc. We have same problem. Many States are creating BMD records but it has been slow.

[Ronaldmac]

Baptism

William Onions
Baptism Date 11 Nov 1821 (so your date of Birth is wrong)
Baptism Place Bilston,Stafford,England
Father George Onions
Mother Diana

Marriage
Name William Onions, Father George Onions

Date 09 May 1841, Place St George'S, Wolverhampton, Stafford, England

Spouse Harriet Thomas, father William Thomas

I expect Sandyhall is (sensibly!) tucked up in bed at this time of night so I'll tell you that the transcription is on FamilySearch, where it then tells you that you can view the original parish register entry either at an LDS Family History Centre (free) or online at Findmypast (for which you will need a sub or pay-as-you-go credits).

I found the entry (which just gives the names, registration district, quarter, and year) on the free GRO Index FreeBMD. https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Pam

We have tried using the GRO. We may have been doing things wrong. Thanks for info.
Ron

[Pam Downes]

https://bellefontainecemetery.org/

Peter

Um, the only problem with that is that the burial date is given as 23 August 1876, which is slightly adrift from Ron's date of 1900. However he admits that his death date is from other people's tree(s) on Ancestry, so probably unreliable.
However, you said that you had birthdate and origins information which fitted. Where did you find that?

I did not intend to cause problems with my search. We have been researching this family and seem to come to dead ends. I have found them on 1860 US census. The death dates are mostly from trees created by others on Family Search. I understand there are issues trying to access information from censuses etc. We have same problem. Many States are creating BMD records but it has been slow.

I know you didn't intend to cause problems but if you don't give us information we can't help - or at least, not as much as we'd like to.
For the moment ignore other people's trees. (My own cousin was stupid enough to copy part of a tree where children where born to a father who'd died about ten years earlier which just proves how unreliable people's research can be.)
We'll take this back in baby-steps.

1. Have you found your Onions grandparent(s)/great grandparent(s) in, say, the 1920 census? (I've no idea of how old you are so I'm not sure which generation we're looking at in that census.) Where are they living? depending on their age(s) were they living there in the 1910, 1900 census as well? If not, where were they living?
2. I know that the vast majority of the 1890 census is missing, so have you been able to trace the your ancestor back from the 1900 census to 1880, and if so, where were they living then?
3. You have the family in 1860. What are their names, ages, and (again) where are they living? Bearing in mind that children might move away from home and in the case of girls marry and therefore change their surname, can you bring any of that 1860 family forward to 1870? Then how does that fit with anyone you've found in 1880?

4. Last question (for now ) - for anyone in the 1860/1870/1880 census that you've found, have you read all the columns re naturalisation etc, and have you found any supporting evidence? e.g. if someone was born in the US have you found a copy of birth registration or a baptism? O any more 'Intent to marry' documents like the one for Thomas Barrie in your other thread?

Pam

[Pam Downes]

We have tried using the GRO. We may have been doing things wrong. Thanks for info.
Ron

There are five basic events - birth, baptism, marriage, death, burial. Only a marriage ever always happen on the same day, regardless of where it's indexed.
From ye ancient days (1538 onwards), the main source of information regarding our ancestors are the parish registers, maintained by the church, and they detail baptisms, marriages, and burials. The amount of detail given increases the nearer to the present day you come. i.e. in the 1600s you were lucky if the baptism record said as much as 'John, son of William Smith, was baptised 16 October 1622'.

Civil registration of births, marriages, and deaths was introduced in England and Wales on 1 July 1837. (Scotland is/was different, as is Ireland.) So the GRO (General Register Office) Index only covers these events. And it is just an index, and as with all indexes it contains errors. A lot in the early days, and even in 1957 it manages to show my aunt and her hubby marrying in different registration districts.
It's not helped by the fact that not all births were registered in the early days.
Until 1866 the index omitted age at death, and omitted the maiden name of the mother until September quarter 1911. However the GRO have now issued an 'updated' version with these details mostly completed at https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
Click the 'search the historical births, etc' link. That's free to search.
The original index is available online via Findmypast and Ancestry, where you can search for free but have to pay to see the details such as in which quarter an event was registered.
However a free online version of the original GRO Index is available at https://www.freebmd.org.uk/ (click 'search')
But this is a work which is still in progress. Most of the early years have been transcribed but don't assume that every page has been, and FreeBMD ends in 1983.

FreeBMD is brilliant for searching as you can use wildcards, surnames only, first names only, specific quarters, counties, registration districts, etc. https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/

Once you've found a BMD registration you can then send for the certificate which will have all the details. You need the name as spelt in the GRO Index, quarter, year, registration district, volume and page numbers. Order certificates from https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ for £9.25 though at the moment you can order a PDF copy of an entry in the historical births and deaths for £6.00
All certificates have to come from either the GRO or a local register office so don't order from any other company as they will charge you an arm and a leg for ordering on your behalf.

You can often save yourself the cost of a marriage certificate if your couple married in a church because an increasing number of marriage parish registers are available online. (e.g. William and Harriet's can be found on Findmypast).
We always recommend obtaining birth certificates for your direct ancestor in addition to their baptism but for siblings baptism records are usually sufficient. Again, many parish registers images are available online (usually via Findmypast or Ancestry), sometimes on FamilySearch. Try FreeREG for transcriptions. https://www.freereg.org.uk/

Pam

[Sandyhall]

I'm back yesterday I had a date with a "Scally Rascal" as 3 year old Zachary now calls himself now Lol

Ronaldmac do you have a Family Tree on Ancestry if so what name is it so I can have a look at it

I have just looked at one and the amount of errors in it unbelievable.

2 children
Mary Jane Onions b 1850 England mothers maiden name is Pigott not Thomas
Sarah Emily Onions b 1855 Egland MMN is Firmstone not Thomas
also how can 2 children be born in the same year 1855
George in June 1855 in New York
Sarah in Dec 1/4 1855 in England

Also I would look at/question how Thomas Onions born 1857 Buffalo, Erie, New York becomes
Thomas Benjamin Onions born 1858 Chicago, Cook, Illinois who marries Maggie Morris.

Most of the information on all the trees has been Shared there are no birth Records saved from any Index but Marriage and Deaths have But to my mind they could be anybody unless you have the right Birth infomation.

I have other thoughts as well as all this but will throw that into the pot later maybe.

Curious as to where these other names have come from.

[grisel]

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...:33S7-9YBC-WY9

Could this be the family in 1880?
William Onyans with a new wife Mary A, but with sons William L b England and Isaac T b Mass.
Living in German Flats, Herkimer, NY.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...:S3HT-6PXQ-PFF

Then in 1900 still in Herkimer with another new wife Adeline?

[grisel]

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...:33S7-9YBC-WY9

Could this be the family in 1880?
William Onyans with a new wife Mary A, but with sons William L b England and Isaac T b Mass.
Living in German Flats, Herkimer, NY.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...:S3HT-6PXQ-PFF

Then in 1900 still in Herkimer with another new wife Adeline?

Find a grave has a burial of Addie Onyans, Armory Hill Cemetery , Herkimer , 1902

[grisel]

Find a grave has a burial of Addie Onyans, Armory Hill Cemetery , Herkimer , 1902

Also a burial of a William Onyans in 1914.

This William supposedly born 8 November 1833, Birmingham England.

If the William who was married to Harriet was also the William with Mary A in 1880 and Adeline in 1900, then he shaved 10 years or so off his age and lived to around 92.

[Sandyhall]

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...:33S7-9YBC-WY9

Could this be the family in 1880?
William Onyans with a new wife Mary A, but with sons William L b England and Isaac T b Mass.
Living in German Flats, Herkimer, NY.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...:S3HT-6PXQ-PFF

Then in 1900 still in Herkimer with another new wife Adeline?

13 years age difference with this


But have found 3 Christening's for 1834 in England

William Onions, Christening Date (Original) 10 AUG 1834
Christening Place PRIMITIVE METHODIST,WROCKWARDINE WOOD,SHROPSHIRE,ENGLAND
Father's Name James Onions, Mother's Name Mary Lewis

William Thomas Onion
Residence Place Saffron-Walden, Essex, England
Christening Date (Original) 26 Feb 1834
Christening Place Saffron-Walden, Essex, England
Father's Name John Onion, Mother's Name Ann

Wm. John Onions
Birth Date 24 Dec 1834
Christening Date (Original) 15 FEB 1835
Christening Place SAINT GEORGE IN THE EAST,STEPNEY,LONDON,ENGLAND
Father's Name William Onions, Mother's Name Ann