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  1. #1
    lynnelay
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    Default family of Samuel Harvey & Susannah Carter

    BG sleuths - Please read post #7 before beginning any further research in connection with this thread.

    Hi, this is just an update of the research I have made since the last post in February 2016.
    I have not found any further info on Susannah Carter b c 1818 Birmingham, but I don't think it is Benjamin. There is an abundance of first names of her children, but no Ben or Benjamin. I am still looking at the other 2, from St peters Harbourne, as they seem the most likely as that is where she was married.

    Samuel Harvey , I believe is the child of Samuel Harvey b 1791 and Elizabeth Nicholls (b Walsall c 1791). They marries at St Peter and Paul Aston April 1813.
    After Samuel died in 1822 buried St Philips she remarried James Cade in 1825, hence her grandchild b 1843 is called Samuel Cade Harvey. They must have been close. Elizabeth died 1864 Cregoe St B'ham.

    Samuel snr, I believe, was born June 1791 in Berkswell Warwickshire, which is between Coventry and B'ham.
    If this is so his line is easy to trace back another couple of generations around that area. This would give a John and Elizabeth Harvey (siblings) to be witnesses at their marriage. Parents John Harvey and Jane Garner. These were from Ancestry or Family search.

    If any one can help,as before, with Susannah Carter or Elizabeth Nicholls I would be very pleased and I thank you for your previous help. Lynne

  2. #2
    lynnelay
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    To add. Samuel Carter and Elizabeth Hopkin who I presumed married at St Martins (No job or address given) in 1811 are on the 1841 and 1851 census in Lancaster Street as gem polishers. They both died in 1853 buried St Mary's. Addresses given as Lancaster St. If they were her parents they are sorted out, but no proof.
    Thanks

  3. #3
    lynnelay
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    Samuel and Elizabeth the Gunmaker family.
    They has a son William born 1814 baptised St Philips abode Walmer Lane. The family above had a William aged 25 with them in 1841 , so perhaps it is them not Elizabeth Hopkins unless they are the same. The same family also had 3 sons , John, William amd James baptised on the same day in April 1817 at St Martins with address given as Walmer Lane still. Occupation gunmaker.
    Also Samuel died 1813 aged 0 St Mary.

  4. #4
    janbooth
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    Just a few thoughts on your Susanna CARTER. 1851 census of Kings Norton, Worcestershire (HO107/2048, folio 216, page 7) shows Samuel HARVEY, wife Susanna and children Betsy, Thomas, Ann, Samuel, Alice & Clara living at Strichley Street. This census shows Susanna to have been born c1819 at Birmingham as does the 1861 census of Everton, Liverpool (RG9/2717, folio 61, page 19) where Susanna, now a widow, is living at 102 Tarlton Street with children Alice, Clara, Ellen, Emmily & Margaret. Do I have the correct family?

    The marriage of Samuel HARVEY & Susanna CARTER took place on 4 December 1836 at Harborne St Peter and one of the witnesses is an Elizabeth CARTER. The only baptism for a Susanna CARTER c1819 that I can find at Birmingham is one on 23 August 1819 (born 1 June) of Susanna daughter of Benjamin & Elizabeth CARTER of Hill Street, Glass Cutter. So could the Elizabeth CARTER who was a witness at Samuel & Susanna's wedding be her mother Elizabeth? If you adhere strictly to naming patterns, Samuel & Susanna's eldest daughter would be named after Susanna's mother, which would follow in this case.

    Have to go out now, but will look again later.

    Janet

  5. #5
    janbooth
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    Not having too much luck in tracing the elusive Benjamin CARTER, Glass Cutter, prior to the baptism of daughter Susanna in 1819. However, had you noticed the death registration of a Benjamin CARTER in the March qtr 1866 at Kings Norton reg district, aged 74, given that Samuel & Susanna HARVEY were living in Kings Norton in 1851? He does not appear to be the Benjamin CARTER baptised in Birmingham in 1792 son of William & Catherine CARTER who seems to be married to a Mary and living in the Sedgley area in the 1841/51 & 61 census records and dies in 1868.

    Janet

  6. #6
    lynnelay
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    As Megan has said in post 2, there are a couple of Samuel CARTER's having children around Birmingham at about the time when Susannah was supposedly born. Given that she married Samuel HARVEY at St Peter, Harborne, in 1836, you might like to consider the marriages below:

    Banns called at St Peter Harborne on 17, 24 & 31 January 1808 and the marriage took place on 1 February 1808 at St Peter Harborne between Samuel CARTER & Ann HALLDEN, both being of the parish and single. They both marked and the witnesses were a John HALLDEN & Mary MORGAN who also both made their mark.

    Banns called at St Peter Harborne on 17, 24 & 31 October 1819 between Samuel CARTER & Elizabeth MOORE & the marriage took place at St Peter Harborne on 12 March 1820, both being single and of the parish. Samuel signed & Elizabeth made her mark. Witnesses were Abigail WHITEHORSE who marked & John TALLIS who signed. However, this marriage is probably too late for your Samuel CARTER.

    However, like everybody else I cannot find a baptism for Susannah CARTER c1818, I'm afraid, although Samuel & Ann seem to have had several children baptised in Birmingham, the first being a Frederick on 16 January 1809 at St Philip, followed by a James in 1813, then a gap until an Ann in 1820 followed by at least a couple more.

    If you can access Ancestry, it might prove profitable to search through their Birmingham parish registers to build up a picture of the family of Samuel (firstly a Labourer then a Grinder & Polisher) & Ann and that of Samuel (a Gun Maker) & Elizabeth although neither occupation is that of a Smallware Dealer but of course occupations can change. A Samuel CARTER married an Elizabeth HOPKINS at Birmingham St Martin on 23 April 1811.

    Janet
    This previous post was archived and I could not add to it, which us what I wanted to do.
    It is indeed the correct family, but there are a couple of blips with Benjamin. Their male children were called Samuel Cade, (Cade was his grandmother's 2nd husband's surname, They must have been close) and James Thomas, no sign of a Benjamin. 2ndly on her 2nd marriage to Abraham Webster in 1866 in Liverpool she states her father was called Samuel and was a smallware dealer. I suppose glass might be smallware??I've looked up the 2 families you mentioned before, but although I can find their families they give no other clues as to any links. I think the gun maker became a gem polisher in Lancaster St, in census 1841 with children William (25) and Maria (20). Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.
    Do you have any thoughts about the possibility of Samuel 's Father , also called Samuel bc1791, being born in Berkswell, Warwickshire or do you think I have taken a jump too far.
    Thanks again Lynne

  7. #7
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change.
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    There are several threads regarding Samuel Harvey and Susann(h) Carter. Some are in the Warwickshire forum, some in Lancashire.

    I can easily find:

    https://www.british-genealogy.com/th...nna(h)-Carter?
    (started 2 February 2016, Warwickshire forum)

    https://www.british-genealogy.com/th...-sleuth-needed!!!
    (started 14 December 2008, Lancashire forum)

    https://www.british-genealogy.com/th...r-1830-to-1855
    (started 24 April 2009, Warwickshire forum)


    Purely about Samuel
    https://www.british-genealogy.com/th...-c1790-to-1850
    (started 26 September 2017, Warwickshire forum)

    Purely about one of their daughters, Eliza:
    https://www.british-genealogy.com/th...eded-please!!?
    (started 18 February 2009, Lancashire forum)

    To avoid further duplication of research I am going to close the first three threads, and refer them to this one. I will also be posting references to this thread in the other two.

    As you can see some of these threads are quite old, and are found in the ‘Archive’ section. Which in turn is found in the banner at the bottom of every forum page.
    To bring an Archived thread ‘to life’ just click on the link at the top of the archived page where it says ‘View full version’.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  8. #8
    janbooth
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    Some of this is duplication of what has already been found, sorry Pam, but I have been trying to put my thought processes in order. Well, Lynne, I have had a singular lack of success in trying to find a Benjamin CARTER, Glass Cutter, or Samuel CARTER, Smallware Dealer, either of whom could be the father of your Susanna. The only likely sighting is the baptismal record of a Susanna CARTER at Birmingham when the family were resident at Hill Street and there are no other baptisms to the same couple either before or after Susanna's baptism in Birmingham. Perhaps he was a Benjamin Samuel or a Samuel Benjamin. I have also been looking through any likely CARTER Wills on both Ancestry & FMP but have come up with absolutely zilch!

    As far as Samuel HARVEY is concerned and to refresh what has already been found in part, there is a baptism at Birmingham St Philip on 31 May 1822 (born 25 August 1818) of Samuel son of Samuel & Elizabeth HARVEY, Queen Street, Comb Maker, and on the same day Henry (born 11 November 1821) son of Samuel & Elizabeth HARVEY, Blacker Street, Comb Maker. Another son Charles is baptised on 11 April 1814 (born 28 February 1814) son of Samuel & Elizabeth HARVEY, Bow Street, Comb Maker. These baptisms are preceded by the marriage of a Samuel HARVEY & Elizabeth NICHOLLS on 18 April 1813 at St Peter & St Paul, Aston. As you have said, burial at St Philip on 25 August 1822 of Samuel HARVEY, Blacker Street, aged 31.

    There is no baptism at Birmingham for a Samuel HARVEY c1791 according to Ancestry, but the witnesses to his marriage are a John HARVEY & an Elizabeth HARVEY who are likely to be close relatives, perhaps siblings. FMP now have the parish registers of Berkswell available to view and there is a Samuel baptised in 1791, parents John & Jane, also a sibling Elizabeth in 1794 and a sibling John in 1787, plus some others, so are these the John & Elizabeth HARVEY who are witnesses at your Samuel's marriage. No marriage, according to FMP, for a Samuel HARVEY at Berkswell nor a burial record there.

    It is all still somewhat circumstantial but definitely worth further investigation on your part. It looks as if John & his wife Jane HARVEY remained in Berkswell as they are buried there in 1830 & 1837 respectively. Following through the siblings of the Samuel HARVEY baptised in Berkswell may well give you some new information.

    Janet

  9. #9
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by janbooth View Post
    Some of this is duplication of what has already been found, sorry Pam, but I have been trying to put my thought processes in order.
    Janet
    As it's nearly Christmas (and I'm still too from sorting out all those threads to care much) I'll forgive you Janet.

    Besides which there's nothing wrong in putting your thought processes in order - or as I call it, double-checking! It can often prove to be time well spent.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  10. #10
    lynnelay
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    Thanks Jan, I have searched what is available and the Berkswell baptism is all I can find. When I get a minute , I will look at the siblings and see what happened to them. I have had lots of help in the past by looking at wills, but wills for this area pre 1858 seem difficult to find. If you could give me any guidance on how to find these wills I will be eternally grateful.

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