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  1. #1
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    Default connundrum two marriages

    Help my last resort my first Abraham de Selomoh Mendes married Hava at Bevis Marks in 1801

    then a Abraham De Mendes married Elizabeth Hudson
    Event Date 22 Jan 1801 Saint Luke, Old Street,Finsbury,London
    Are they one and the same ? or is it purely coincidental

    The only other information I have is Abraham had a sister called Harriet which is not a Jewish name and she appears to have lived in Cheshire where in the 19th century a number of Mendes live..

    Is it just coincidence and the Cheshire Mendes are and always have been a Christian family or do we have a family of Portuguese coversos who got out in the 1700s and reverted to Judaism then back to Christianith all help appreciated, and a belated Chag Somearch to one and all kevin

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    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    There is a marriage bond and allegation on the 21 Jan 1801 by Abraham Mendes and Richard ?? being beholden and firmly bound to the Right Reverend Baillie, by the divine permission Bishop of London, the sum of £200. This is for the marriage to Elizabeth Hudson.
    Their daughter Matilda de Mendes was baptised in Bowden Cheshire 19 Jul 1822.
    Christina
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  3. #3
    Name well known on Brit-Gen janbooth's Avatar
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    The original parish register entry of the marriage of Abraham de MENDES & Elizabeth HUDSON is available to view on Ancestry and states that he was of the parish of St Luke, Finsbury and a bachelor, Elizabeth HUDSON was of the parish of St Andrew by the Wardrobe and was a widow. Don't know whether this will help you at all, but FindmyPast have the actual parish register images for the baptisms of the children of Abraham & Elizabeth at Bowdon, Cheshire, amongst whom are an Emma (born 1802), Harriet (born 1812), Matilda (born 1822), all baptised in 1822 - can't give you full details I'm afraid because of their terms & conditions.

    Janet
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    Thanks Janet, I did not know she was a widow as to the rest I have that but still did they marry in a synagoue and a church also can you explain what the bond is all about ... thanks again

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    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Before civil registration began in 1837, most people in England were required by law to be married by banns or license. To request a license they had to provide a written allegation stating the couple’s intent to marry and stating that there were no legal obstacles to the marriage. From 1604 until 1823, the allegation was substantiated by bond. Two witnesses, one of them usually the groom, swore to the bond, which would be forfeited if the information in the allegation proved false and were a legal impediment to the marriage

    Marriage allegations and bonds often exist where licenses don’t because, while the license was given to a member of the wedding party to present to the officiant at the ceremony, the allegation stayed with the authority who issued it.

    Christina
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevininlondon View Post
    Thanks Janet, I did not know she was a widow as to the rest I have that but still did they marry in a synagoue and a church also can you explain what the bond is all about ... thanks again
    The most probable reason for the two ceremonies was down to the law passed in 1753 titled “An Act for the better preventing of clandestine Marriages. (1753)” or simply “Lord Hardwicke’s Act”.
    This required all marriages in England be conducted in the Church of England but did not extend to marriages where both parties were Quakers or Jews.

    In the case at hand it sounds as if Abraham de MENDES was jewish and Elizabeth HUDSON was C of E; this would require the marriage to be in a C of E church.
    In such instances it was not uncommon for a second ceremony in a synagogue to take place to ensure the marriage was valid under their requirements, customs and laws.
    It was not until 1837 that this changed again with the introduction of civil marriages

    Cheers
    Guy
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    Kevin
    Guy is correct about the Hardwicke's Marriage Act of 1753 and later Marriage Act of 1823 regarding Jews and Quakers exemptions.
    The Abraham and Elizabeth line is traceable as you know but have you identified a second Abraham/Hava line just for confirmation.
    Is there a copy of the 1801 ketubah for Abraham/Hava? I note Elizabeth was a widow do you know her maiden name?
    The Bevis Marks 1801 Marriage suggests that if Hava is also Elizabeth she would need "conversion"

    What do you think?
    Phillip

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    thankyou very much...Christanel

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    somebody say it says proselyte albeit a strange name for a convert... apart from that totally at loss if they are one and the same, as to ketubah I have seen nothing .. unlike the incredible Dutch Records free and open to all, that aside I cant find a death date for Abraham absolutely nothing, again thanks

  10. #10
    Name well known on Brit-Gen janbooth's Avatar
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    Abraham was definitely dead by 1830 according to the newspaper announcement of his daughter Matilda's wedding at Lichfield on 15 April 1830 wherein she is described as the second daughter of the late A De MENDES. Daughter Emma also marries at Lichfield on 1830 to a Charles BINGHAM - both parish register images available to view on FMP.

    The 1841 census of Shenstone, Lichfield, Staffordshire (HO107/980/15, folio 18, page 1) shows Elizabeth De MENDES, aged 60, School Mistress, not born in the county and with her, amongst others, is daughter Harriet described as a 25 year old unmarried Governess, again not born in the county. Elizabeth's death was registered in the September qtr 1845 at Lichfield reg district, aged 65. Harriet died on 30 October 1857 at Denham, Buckinghamshire (National Probate Calendar entry), her sister Emma Eve STEVENS, widow, being granted Administration in 1859.

    You may well have all this information, but it does give a relatively small period of time, i.e. probably between 1822 & 1830, when Abraham died and he may well have been buried in a Jewish cemetery around either Bowdon or Lichfield - or somewhere in between - in which case we are unlikely to find any records online. I can find no newspaper report of his death so am a bit stymied at the moment.

    Janet
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