Brick wall - illigitimacy and no birth cert

[sophiewilliams]

Hello everyone, thank you for letting me join your site.

I wonder if anyone can help me with this one? I really think I may have to give up on it 😣!

My maternal grandmother was born in 1916 and didn't have a birth certificate. My mum and I believe it was her paternity that was an issue and this is why she didn't have one. Her marriage certificate reveals a dash under father and father's occupation confirming what we think. It was never discussed during my grandmother's lifetime, she died in 1970.

Now to tell you what I do know, which is actually quite a lot. My grandmother was called Kathleen. My great grandmother was called Alice and was Kathleen's mother. Alice married George Bick in 1899, they had a daughter - Ada Elsie in 1900, Alice May in 1905 and George junior in 1911 (died 1912). George senior was admitted to an asylum in January 1915 and died there in January 1916. Kathleen was born in June 1916 .....that rules out George as the father. Unlike her (half) sisters, Kathleen had no middle name, no birth certificate and wasn't christened like the others also. She did have the same surname as them though so, to the outside world, everything was normal.

Alice re-married in 1917 to David Waters. Through Ancestry I've connected to a relative of David's mum's sister called Martyn. So by rights if David was Kathleen's father - I should have matched up to Martyn. We didn't match up so that rules out David as father. Alice had a relationship between husbands is what we are now lead to believe.

On a practical level, how did Kathleen manage to get a NI number and vote etc? My mum remembers that to get a passport she had to find someone that had known her from birth to 5 years old .....

Kathleen was in the ATS in WW2, would obtaining her records provide any answers? I don't want to have the expense of sending off for them if it doesn't.

Has anybody else had any experience of this and have any advice where to go from here or anywhere we could look for answers we maybe haven't thought of?

Thank you for taking the time to read through this, do appreciate its very heavy going even though I've tried to simplify it as much as possible and can obviously provide more info should it be required.

Look forward to receiving some help from anybody who has been in this position and really doesn't know which way to turn next?

Kind regards

Sophie

[Lesley Robertson]

Welcome to the British Genealogy Forum. We have a lot of helpful volunteers here.


Why are you so sure that her birth was not registered?

[sophiewilliams]

Welcome to the British Genealogy Forum. We have a lot of helpful volunteers here.


Why are you so sure that her birth was not registered?

Hi Lesley

Thank you for taking the time to read my query😊

I know that Kathleen was born 6th June 1916 in Hole-in-the-wall, Herefordshire - a small hamlet by Foy. Apparently Alice gave birth to her on her own, hence no midwife to register the birth? Looking at birth records, can find nothing for a Kathleen Bick with Alice Bick (nee Goode) as her mother for that time. Ive also tried Kathleen Goode and Kathleen Waters in desperation! She would have been registered under Ross-on-Wye registration district, Ross being the area Foy would come under. I have not looked under any other registration areas for this reason? Also mum can remember the passport parafanalia that could have easily been solved with a certificate of birth.

Kind regards
Sophie

[Sandyhall]

George Bick married Alice Goode Sept 1/4 1898 Ross (spans the boundaries of the counties of Gloucestershire and Herefordshire)

the 3 children births on FreeBMD mothers maiden name Goode
Ada Elsie born district Ross
Alice May born district Abergavenny
George born district Upton, Worcester

2nd marriage to David Walters took place in Ross

No birth for a Kathleen

Except this
Births Sep 1918
Kathleen E Goode, mother's MN Williams, district Pontypridd Vol no 11a, Page no 977

We have crossed posted sorry

[sophiewilliams]

Hi Sandy

Thank you for your reply. Quite reassuring to see you've found the same as me! Shows I'm not missing something obvious. To take the story further .... David ended up in Ross "public assistance institution" Alice's husbands did not fare well! She was alive and kicking just around the corner from him in Ross and worked in the public institution launderette - probably so she could keep an eye on him!

I also did wonder if Ada, Alice's eldest, was Kathleen's mother being nearly 16 at her birth and it's all a massive cover-up!!

Kind regards

Sophie

[benny1982]

Have you tried just anyone with the name Kathleen born in the Ross On Wye district in the June qtr or Sep qtr of 1916 without a surname but with Goode as a mothers maiden name in case she was mistranscribed or even registered under a unknown surname?

[sophiewilliams]

Hello benny1982

Thank you for your help. Yes, I've tried every combination with the surnames I've got - I think the story of her being without a certificate is actually true even if nothing else is! I think there is no other way of finding out who her father was. I think he may have been a soldier in WW1 who never came back!?!

[helachau]

On the limited info . provided in the initial post I chased Kathleen Ware ( mother's maiden name) and found a Kathleen Louisa Ware, born March Qtr, 1916, mother not named.

Looked promising, until the additional information provided about her being born Hole in the wall (source?)

[helachau]

Just backtracked - I seem to have chased a George Buck - not Bick - married an Alice Ware 1899. Shd have gone to "Sp******rs"

[sophiewilliams]

Thank you for looking anyway