Susan Riches.

[benny1982]

Hi all, not been on for a while and still plugging away at my family tree. Here is one of my latest brickwalls.

In May 1725 my ancestor Susan Riches wed Henry Helsdon at All Saints, Norwich, Norfolk, England. Their first child was Robert, second Elizabeth, third Dennis (My ancestor), fourth Elizabeth and 5th Elizabeth. This means the first 2 Elizabeth's died in infancy. Susan had her last child in 1739.

I did think the Susan Riches born in 1702 at St James Pockthorpe could be my ancestor but I have managed to eliminate her due to further research.

I then thought she may not necessarily have been about 17-25 when she married in 1725 but maybe older. A Susan Riches born in 1693 in Norwich died as a child and I ruled out the one born in Old Buckenham in 1702.

Two Susan Riches seem to stand out to me. I would not read too much into Susan and Susannah/Susana.

Susana Riches bapt 26 July 1691 in St Peter Mancroft, Norwich, daughter of James and Deborah.
Susan Riches born 30 April 1694, in St Michael At Plea, Norwich, daughter of Isaac and Elizabeth.

Henry Helsdon, Susan's husband was married before Susan and lived in the two neighbouring small parishes of All Saints and Timberhill over time, having different children baptised and buried at both churches. Their churches are just 20 yards apart and are virtual neighbours. Henry's wife died inbetween 1721 and 1725, not yet found her burial.

A Susan Riches wed in 1708 in Heigham, Norwich to Samuel Laws and a Susan Riches married in April 1710 to John Titchwell in Norwich, at Norwich Cathedral.

Isaac Riches, father of Susan born 1694 lived in the All Saints/Timberhill area from at least 1721 (according to Norwich window and land tax records) to his death in 1751, the same area my Susan got married at in 1725.

I can find no evidence that Isaac left a will. The burial register states Isaac was a widower. Not yet found his wife's death. Isaac was a weaver and I am sure he had a brother Edmund Riches who was a baker. Edmund left a will as did his son Edmund Jnr born 1693, I checked the wills and no mention of any nieces or cousins. Isaac and Edmund are listed as collectors of monies in a 1715 window and land tax record for St Stephen, Norwich, a parish next to All Saints/Timberhill.

Henry and Susan Helsdon lived in All Saints then Parmentergate in the 1730s and 1740s. Interestingly an Isaac and Edmund Riches appear in the window and land tax records for Parmentergate in 1738 to 1746. I assume it was Edmund Jnr as Edmund Snr, the baker, died in 1740. Edmund Jnr died in 1750. Also Henry and Susan's grandson Henry born 1773, son of Dennis born 1729 had a son Isaac Helsdon in 1798. I doubt though if you would name a child after a great grandfather, a parent maybe or grandparent but great grandparent?

This is all circumstantial evidence but maybe I should keep chipping away?

[MrsPoppy]

Hi Benny

This is the difficulty isn't it when you get back to the 1600's and 1700's you have to rely on uncovering that one fact which will sort it out. I see the Riches family in various trade directories - lots of which are free on google books etc. I had a look in early newspapers online to see if any of the names come up but nothing stands out.

As you say Wills etc are the only way to get the clues this far back.

Good luck and let us know if you find out.

Mrs P

[peanut]

Hi

What about
Susan Riches,
Baptised 24/3/1702
Father Robert
Mother Catherine
Wymondham
Norwich Norfolk

Her father was Robert and your Susan named her first son Robert could be your Susan named her son after her father

Eddie

[benny1982]

Hi

What about
Susan Riches,
Baptised 24/3/1702
Father Robert
Mother Catherine
Wymondham
Norwich Norfolk

Her father was Robert and your Susan named her first son Robert could be your Susan named her son after her father

Eddie

Hi Eddie

Something to throw into the pot. Wymondham is just a few miles out of Norwich.

Mrs Poppy it certainly is more difficult pre 1780-1800 when you go further back and you worry if you are taking a gamble when you have a circumstantial case. I hope one day they put Norfolk wills online, and even a Norfolk wills beneficiary index (similar to the Essex one) as that would be a great way to find known rellies mentioned in missing rellies wills.

Possible that someone born in 1691 had their first baby at 34 and last at 48 but the 1708 and 1710 Susan Riches marriages probably indicates that the 1691 one is one of the Susan Riches who wed in 1708 and 1710.

It is more likely inbetween the 1694 one and the Wymondham one, and always a small unfortunate chance it is another Susan who was not baptised or there is a gap in the registers of whatever parish she came from.

[MrsPoppy]

Hi Benny

I think this is a great excuse for spending several hours in the local archives or local history section of the local library. So much is online but there are a lot of treasures in local archives if you can get to the relevant one.

As you say records may be missing or she could be from any parish - but don't we love it when we finally get a clue.

Mrs P

[benny1982]

It does look promising that when Susan Riches wed Henry Helsdon in 1725 an Isaac Riches lived in the same area and he had a daughter Susan in 1694. But as said there is nothing concrete to say the 1694 one is the one who wed in 1725. I shall certainly be looking more into this next time I am at Norfolk RO but until then it may be a good idea to put it on a backburner for a while, it can get overwhelming and tiring when you focus too much on one line and try and prove/disprove a connection.

[helachau]

Burial - St John Timberhill with All Saints & Michael at Thorn (FMP images)

Elizabeth, wife of Henry Helsdin, burial 26 Aug 1722

[benny1982]

Burial - St John Timberhill with All Saints & Michael at Thorn (FMP images)

Elizabeth, wife of Henry Helsdin, burial 26 Aug 1722

Wow thanks. So we now know when Henry's first wife died. So he had been a widower for quite a while before he married Susan Riches. Almost 3 years.

In regards to Susan having a child Robert in 1725, and her possibly being the daughter of a Robert Riches of Wymondham, well unfortunately spanner in the works as I double checked Henry Helsdon's children from his first wife and found that Henry Helsdon had a son Robert in 1718 by his first wife. So in 1725 when him and Susan had a son Robert it was a name Henry had used.

[MrsPoppy]

Had the first Robert died?

Mrs P

[benny1982]

Yes he died as an infant in 1719, sorry forgot to mention that in my previous post. I have a feeling that Henry's father may have been Robert Helsdon through a lead I have found.

Henry then had a son Robert in 1720 who died as an infant, so he had 2 sons called Robert with his first wife.