Isaacs Asher/Hyam/Benjamin = Charles Sinclair

[phillip]

Denise
I can't remember if we noted this record in connection to Asher Isaacs but since Ellen and I have Isaacs connections ( these appear to be growing) here is the record:
Synagogue Scribes BSGSBUR 398/3014
Maria ISAACS Burial 20 April 1819
Keate Court Keate Street Spitalfields father ASHER ARYEH b ISAAC

This is a useful record in so far that we now know that Asher Aryeh ( Hebrew for Lion or other derivations) is descended from Isaac- possibly Isaac Isaacs?

Both Ellen and myself have Isaac Isaacs individuals among our lines but I do not know if they relate to your line without new research.

Hope this is not a recap of what you already know.

Phillip

[phillip]

This maybe Barnett Isaacs son of Asher:
GRO Marriage Record
Parish Church St Dunstan and All Saints Stepney
Nov 29 1839
Barnet ISAACS Full age bachelor watchmaker 17 GloucesterSt father ASHER ISAACS Lemon Merchant
Elizabeth BRITT Full age spinster same address as groom father Samson Britt tailor
Witnessses Sophia Russell; I?? Re?? Scott??

Elizabeth signed her name with x mark

Nb The Ancestry.Com family trees which have Asher Isaacs b circa 1750= Betsy ( one has her as a Levy) have too many errors for accuracy

Phillip

[denione]

Thanks Philip, yes maybe a connection on Barnett but my Asher was born about 1750/1755 so this would make him 85-90 at the 1839 wedding. I wonder if this Asher could be a son of my Asher and also a lemon man/fruit dealer?

I saw Sophia record as Levitt (nee Isaacs) somewhere in my father’s research. She was a sister to Barnett.

I’ll keep looking.

[phillip]

Denise
I wonder if you can help Ellen and myself with a puzzle. In #1 of this thread you refer to the Synagogue Scribes Record GSM 092/19 Marriage 17 fEB 1805 as being that of Hyam Isaacs to Emilia Woolf.

The record however shows;
HYAM ASHER Avraham Chaim father Asher Aryeh Lemon-man and Emilia Woolf father Wolf

Is this Hyam Asher one in the same as Hyam Isaacs and if so, why is his last name Asher and not Isaacs?

Is this the right person?

Any explanation would be welcome.

Phillip

[denione]

Hi Philip, Ellen,
I hope we are on the right track as my father and I took this Synagogues Scribes to be about our Hyam Isaacs / parentage as we understand there is some interchange between surname and first name in Jewish genealogy. In fact, we had a prior record from the Boyd's Marriage Index (captured in 2015) giving Hyam Asher and Amelia Woolf at The Great Synagogue. I know we are missing the Isaacs surname.... I cannot trace a link to that record but have attached a photograph below.

When we stumbled across the Synagogue Scribes version in 2017 we were pleased to see Asher as a 'lemon man' and felt that validated as the 1814 Baptism at St. Bride's (for Hyam and his family) has a clear record of Asher as a fruit dealer. I think the baptism records are viewable online (although LDS site has the date as 1804 which is incorrect). My father and I visited the Guildhall Library in 2006 and took photographs which are very clear and have extra information on the d.o.b for Hyam, Amelia and each child outside the columns. I have attached those images as well.

Boyd's record


Baptism 1814 records



Please let me know if you think we have taken a 'guess' step too far... or if you think there might be more leads around the Synagogue route to find Asher's origin and parentage.

Denise

[phillip]

Hi Denise
Ellen and I had already thought about the surname interchange from Asher to Isaacs and knew that this was a feature of Jewish naming. For example, in my own line I have Kitty Moses marriage Gt Synagogue to Henry Jacobs with Kitty's father Moshe COHEN- my 5x great grandfather. Similarly, I have Letson aka Litzen again in Synagogue Records becoming Jacobs.

I don't know if Angela and Gaby at Synagogue Scribes can shed any further light on the Asher aka Isaacs naming but it may be worth you contacting them. They have always been excellent in providing me with advice and clarification over many years.

The trade of glass cutter for Hyam is interesting given his father was in the fruit trade but this again was not uncommon given the early trade restrictions on Jews. Glass cutter and glass dealers/manufacturers were significant trades among my Jacobs/Litzen lines but some moved out of the trade and were butchers and other occupations.

It looks from my perspective that you are on the right lines but Ellen has researched her own Isaacs lines as well as other Isaacs and knows a lot more about them than I do. I would be interested in what she says about your post.

Phillip

[SinclairGordon]

Thanks will up date you when I have more information

[Ellen]

Hi All,
I have those same records [above] on my East Anglian Isaacs tree[ Public /Ancestry ] & was very happy with them until I read the GS Marriage record & found no mention of Isaacs . I also see that for Hi/yam's Baptism he provides Isaacs & not Asher for his parents ...so I would be intersted to know under which circumstances Asher becomes Isaacs. It could be I suppose that Hiam took his Grandfathers name later & then used it for the baptism record but maybe before the baptism he was just Hyam b. Asher...so could his father have been Asher b. Isaac ?

My Hyam Burn Isaacs , drops the Isaacs between Oxford & Cambridge & is known thereafter as plain old Rev: Hyam Burn ... his Burn descendants had quite a surprise .

Ellen

[phillip]

Noted the following in response to #1 of this thread regarding whether or not Elizabeth Isaacs was the mother of Benjamin:
Freedom of the City of London Admission Papers- Benjamin Isaacs (son of Hyam Isaacs late of Exeter in the Ministry) occupying premises 122 Bishopsgate a Professor of Music -17 Oct 1856.
As previously posted- Marriage of Benjamin 31 Jan 1843 full age bachelor Stationer -father Hyam Isaacs Gentleman= Eliza Paterson full age spinster Frith St Hill -father James Paterson Performer
Married Parish Church St Catherine's Cree City of London.

These 2 records suggest Benjamin's father was Hyam unless Benjamin was brought up Hyam/Amelia but not their son- not uncommon practice in those days and later.

I suspect that Ellen may be right regarding Asher b Isaac hence the Asher-Isaacs change of last name.

Phillip

[phillip]

Denise
Another note for Chapman Isaacs son of Asher. Just in case the record was missed:
UK Register of Duties Paid for Apprentices's Indentures
Chapman Isaacs -Master KATE COURT Spitalfields Middlesex Watch maker-apprentice Israel Symmonds Thursday 4 March 1802

As you know from the 1841-51 Census records Chapman was born circa 1780-83 and died in 1855.
In the 1851 census Chapman age 68 watch maker with his wife Abigail is in the same household as Isaac Isaacs age 44 shopman with is wife and children.

The 1797 date for Chapman and the Kate Court ( looks like a misspelling for Keat Court) places him in the same locality as Asher his father. What interests me are the different trades of Chapman, Hyam and their father.

Phillip