Paymaster John Winterbottom 52 Light Infantry

[Pandad]

Militia is not my strong point so I thought I would ask the experts for their opinions on the matters below so I can understand the context? I am trying to pin his age/birth year down as he is a difficult individual to pinpoint within OPRs to track his parentage.

Paymaster John Winterbottom, 52nd Light Infantry, was asked 162 question by a parliamentary commission on military punishment in 1835. His answers, in my opinion, conflict with dates in his service record which cast doubt on his birth year and his age on joining 52nd as he was in “two or three militia” before joining 52nd.

I believe age for balloted militia was between 18 and 50/55, although this was probably flouted? John was one month shy of 18 when he joined 52nd, according to his service record, however, In question 5127 below; “Previously to being balloted for the militia, had you enlisted? – I had enlisted in two or three different regiments, and my father had paid a good deal of money to get me away.” To me, this implies he was below required age to join militia, as this is before he joined the 52nd?

Did his father pay to get him “in” or “out” the militia? I have newspaper clips that also mention him being “brought off” or “ransomed”?

Was there any specific period that he would have served in those "two or three" militia?

Other questions he answers imply he was older than 18 when he joined the 52nd?

I am trying to pin his age and, I think, I need to understand the militia context to try and establish his estimated age/birth year.

I have listed his service record and some of the parliamentary questions below so context is apparent with more relevant questions highlighted.

Returns of Officers Service. WO 25/795 - WO 25. 51-55 Foot. page 202 of 501
John Winterbottom, 52nd Light Infantry,
Born: Saddleworth, Yorkshire
Date of Birth: 1 November 1781
Private - 17 October 1799 to March 1801
Corporal - April 1801 to November 1803
Sergeant – December 1803 to 10 June 1805
Sergeant-Major – 11 June 1805 to 23 November 1808
Ensign & Adjutant – 24 November 1808 to 27 February 1810
Lieutenant & Adjutant – 28 February 1810 to 30 May 1821
Paymaster – 31 May 1821 to 31 December 1827

Parliamentary questions: Full link below if interested.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...bottom&f=false
5119. You are paymaster of the 52nd? – I am.
5120. How long have you been paymaster? – Upwards of fourteen years.
5121. Had you served in the regiment previously? – I have served upwards of 35 years in the 52nd Regiment.
5122. Did you originally enter that regiment as a private soldier? – Yes
5123. What countryman are you? – From the West Riding of the county of York.
5125. At what age did you enlist into the regiment? – I think I was about twenty-one.
5126. Have you any objection to state reason of your enlistment? – None. I was fond of the Army. My father was in pretty good circumstances, and I was fond of the Army from my youth. I had enlisted in two or three regiments previous to the 52nd; I volunteered from the militia; I was a balloted man into the militia, and volunteered into the 52nd.
5127. Previously to being balloted for the militia, had you enlisted? – I had enlisted in two or three different regiments, and my father had paid a good deal of money to get me away.
5128. Were you in the West Riding militia? – I was in supplementary militia embodied in 1797
5136. You joined the militia in the first instance? – I did.
5137. Where was that? – At Wakefield.
5146. How long did you remain in the supplementary militia? - I remained till the year 1799, when I volunteered into the 52nd Foot.
5147. Where was the 52nd at that time? – They were stationed at Chelmsford barracks when I joined them.
5177. Who commands your regiment? – Colonel Fergusson.
5133. From that time you went through all the ranks up to sergeant-major? – I was a private eighteen months, a corporal a year and a half, I was sergeant two years, and a sergeant-major three years.
5195. How long, after you entered the 52nd, was it that you got your commission as adjutant? - I entered in 1799 and got my commission as adjutant at the end of 1808.
5196. What age was you then? – I was about thirty.
5197. How long did you serve as adjutant? – Thirteen years
5199. How did you find the money? – An uncle of mine supplied part of it, and I had saved some.
5202. You were twenty-nine years of age at that time? – I think about twenty-nine or thirty.
5211. Are you a married man? – I am.
5212. Were you married at that time? – I was not.
5238. Were you at Waterloo? - I was.
5239. Did you receive a medal? – I did.

[k9walker]

Hi - I can answer the question about being balloted into the local militia. Every parish was obliged to keep a list of men old enough to serve - this would be held by the constable - and when the local militia came looking for additional men, names would be drawn by ballot to ensure fairness. You could also pay for someone else to go in your stead if you did not want to serve.

[Pandad]

Cheers K9Walker. By the sounds of it, in question 5127 "Previously to being balloted for the militia, had you enlisted? – I had enlisted in two or three different regiments, and my father had paid a good deal of money to get me away." The statement his father paid "to get him away", could imply 1. to keep him in; 2. to keep him out?

Rod

[k9walker]

It sounds to me like he was attracted by soldiering and his father didn't want him to go. The fact that he was able to buy him out so many times definitely suggests he was still under age. Probably waited him out until he reached his legal majority for military service.

I put some more info up on the other post btw, hopefully some of it may prove useful.

[Pandad]

He appears to be very keen on military service. His 52nd Foot service record makes him 17 years 11 months old when he joined, however, other answers he gives imply he was older than that. All very confusing, but typical for this hobby.

Rod