Parents of John Winterbottom (1781-1838)

[Pandad]

Hi Pam

that magic dust works a treat and everything is fine with edits. I will have to be more careful in future. Thanks a bunch

[Pandad]

helachau
A newspaper tribute (1st Oct 1841) to John Winterbottom has him born "... New Lane, Delph, near Saddleworth".

Found that news article and I missed that wee clue , thanks for that.

[helachau]

There's a baptism on FMP (image) for a

John Winterbottom, bap 22 Jan 1785, born Jun 18, 1779 to William and Alice, denomination Independent, born at Sholver Hey. Father's occpn. weaver and cannot quite make out a place "Green acres?, Oldham".

Baptised at the same time and born to William and Alice are a Mary, born March 7 1781 and Ann, born Mar 11 1783

As has been mentioned above, there are a number of John Winterbottoms born in the Saddleworth/Oldham area around this time.

(The 3 John Winterbottoms at Delph mentioned earlier do not appear to be in the frame)

[Pandad]

helachau
There's a baptism on FMP (image) for a

John Winterbottom, bap 22 Jan 1785, born Jun 18, 1779 to William and Alice, denomination Independent, born at Sholver Hey. Father's occpn. weaver and cannot quite make out a place "Green acres?, Oldham".

Baptised at the same time and born to William and Alice are a Mary, born March 7 1781 and Ann, born Mar 11 1783

The who area is riddled with Winterbottom surname and a lot are named John, which does not help. I have dug out 40 old Winterbottom's trying to tie in the John, Joseph, James and Mary to one couple, without success.

I tried the Mary Winterbottom (Hale) route and found a Mary Winterbottom & Edward Hall marriage for 7 Nov 1819 in Rochdale, St Chad. Found her on 1841 & 1851 census; born about 1792 in Saddleworth. But it did not bring any more clues.

Tried the Betty Winterbottom (Hughes) route and found a Betty Winterbottom & William Hughes marriage for 2 Feb 1834 at Oldham, Lancashire. Found Betty on 1841 & 1861 census, born about 1809 in Saddleworth. But no luck with that line either.

I keep plodding away

[Pandad]

With some of your suggestions I have managed to find two groups of Mary, John, James and Joseph Winterbottom with same parental names, with top group looking more promising than bottom group.

This is only stage one and further work in needed to confirm. To make the great uncle connection between John (1825-1897) and John (1781-1838) either James or Joseph, or another sibling not yet found, must be the father to John (1795-1855), the father of John (1825-1897)?

James would be 21 and Joseph 19 when John (1795-1855) was born, so they are possibilities?

John, 17 May 1772, Jonathan & Ann, Brownedge, Saddleworth
James, 28 Aug 177, Jonathan & Ann, Brownedge, Saddleworth
Joseph, 29 Dec 1776, Jonathan & Ann, Brownedge, Saddleworth
Mary, 23 Jan 1780, Jonathan & Ann, Breadmedow, Friarmere

Joseph, 2 Jun 1782, Joseph & Salley, , Mossley, St George
John, 13 Feb 1785, Joseph & Salley, Tame Hill, Friarmere (Mother recorded as Malley in OPR)
James, 21 Apr 1793, Joseph & Salley, Whams Inn, Friarmere
Jonathan, 9 Oct 1796, Joseph & Salley, Oldtams Hills, Friarmere
Mary, 1 Sep 1799, Joseph & Salley, Summesh, Friarmere
The John in this group is the original John (1781-1838) with his 17 Nov 1781 birth date but with baptism three years later 13 Feb 1785, which is suspect in my opinion?

Rod

[Pandad]

To make the great uncle connection between John (1825-1897) and John (1781-1838) either James or Joseph, must be the father to John (1795-1855), the father of John (1825-1897)?

John Winterbottom (1795-1855) was born/baptised between 1793 and 1795 according to examination of all his source documents.

John Winterbotton (1781-1838) 52nd Regt. only mentioned two brothers in his Will, James and Joseph.

The only baptism that fits the birth window with James or Joseph as father is;

John Winterbottom, 24 Aug 1794, Saddleworth, parents James and Ruth Winterbottom.

So, slowly, slowly making progress, but not quite finished yet

[k9walker]

Hi Pandad, you may have long solved this brick wall but if you haven’t you will find those printed volumes of the St Chad Saddleworth registers on a website called Huddersfield Exposed. Go all the way to page 557 and you will find a long memorial included about your soldier with parentage. He was the son of Joseph Winterbottom of Denshaw and Sally Baron of Broadcarr nr Rochdale. (it says Barum in the text) He was born in 1781 at Tame Mill and baptised at St Thomas, Friarmere in 1785. Joseph and Sally married at St Chad in Rochdale on 19 Feb 1776.

[Pandad]

K9walker. Much appreciated, and yes, the brick wall was broken down, however, I will still investigate your clue and review all the other sources as well. So far, my conclusions are made up of various source snippets-not ideal, but you have to work with what you have. Your reply is much appreciated, especially as this thread is 6-years old
Rod

[k9walker]

You are most welcome. I was investigating an Ogden/Winterbottom marriage for connections to my tree and came across your post. Saddleworth FHS has a couple of books you might find helpful for navigting the parish registers called Mapping Saddleworth 1 & 2. These are old map collections that show all the hamlets mentioned in the registers, most of which have now disappeared.

[Pandad]

k9walker. Interesting, as I have an Ogden/Winterbottom marriage, Ruth Ogden to James Winterbottom (WB), 18 Oct 1793, St Chad Church, Saddleworth, and I currently have them as parents to John WB (1795-1855). However, following yesterday's discovery that may change! My parental allocation for John WB (1795-1855) is mainly based on small snippets and a newspaper article providing relationship details between John WB (1827-1897), his father John WB (1795-1855) and John WB (1827-1897) great uncle, John WB (1781-1838), and their military careers spanning more than two-hundred years. Until now, not one source has mentioned any parental names whatsoever, and my previous theory calculated the father of John WB (1781-1838) to be Jonathan WB and Ann Ratcliffe, who married 27 Feb 1770 in Saddleworth. That theory was based mainly on sibling names in John WB (1781-1838) will and baptism to parents with those names only.
Starting today, I intend to revisit all the source evidence and reevaluate, using Evedentia3.

Rod