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  1. #1

    Default Frederick James Young.

    Hi and Happy New Year

    Although, I have some details about my relation - Frederick James Young, I cannot find him, his wife and 2 of his children anywhere on the 1911 census in Hampshire. Unless I am looking in the wrong place.

    The details that I have are....
    Born June 1882 in Southampton and died 1925 Southampton. Occupation was as a printer.
    Married Ada Lucy Hawkins in 1913. Ada Hawkins was born in abt 1886 in Christchurch, Hampshire.
    First child - Elizabeth (Bessie) Hawkins Young was born in 1905.
    Second child - Frederick James Hawkins Young was born in 1910.

    It is believed the children were born in Bournemouth, Hampshire.

    Whether they lived together before getting married, I have no idea,

    Frederick James Young was enlisted in 1914, but invalided out about 18 months or so later. Hampshire Regiment. I have that record, as well as records for residencies and marriage.

    He appears either to have disappeared somewhere or could be on another 1911 census location.

    Any help will be appreciated...Thank you
    Richard

  2. #2

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    I can't find birth registrations for either child in those years with Hawkins as a middle name, BUT FreBMD does show Elizabeth and Frederick Hawkins, registered 1905 and 1910, respectively, in Christchurch.This may indicate that they were indeed born before their parents married, when they would have been registered under their mother's name. Frederick could be their father after a late marriage or was their stepfather.

    If you don't already have them, you should find the birth certificates informative.

    Do you have his service number?

  3. #3
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change.
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    Default

    Hello Richard,

    Welcome to British-Genealogy.

    You will not find Fred and his wife in the 1911 census for the simple reason that they weren't married then.
    Though there is a chance that you might find Fred and someone living as his wife in 1911.

    The children Elizabeth (Bessie) and Frederick James were registered at birth as Hawkins, with no mother's maiden name given. (GRO Historical Indexes.) Although the children may have used the Young name in later life, it's possible that Elizabeth isn't Frederick's child, but given his name I suspect baby Fred is. Being listed on his military service record is not proof of biological parentage. In fact, looking at that record against the children's names it says 'from certificates issued by Somerset House regarded as the children of Ada Lucy Hawkins'.

    Have you read his service report in minute detail? I agree that in 1901 Frederick is listed as a printer, but on his service reports his job on enlistment states fireman.
    It's a bit weird actually because he joined the RAMC in June 1915 but was discharged eight days later as medically unfit, but then he managed - or was forced - to enrol again five weeks later into the Hampshires.

    On the last page but one in the paragraph about his present condition it says 'states that he served for 15 yrs in the Engine Room Department of Mercantile Marine'. If so, chances are that he was sailing the seven seas in 1911 and therefore got missed off the census. (Similar situation to my grandfather who'd been in China for two years in the navy and got missed off the 1901 census, even though - allegedly - all the RN ships were enumerated.)

    Do you have a copy of his marriage certificate which should show his occupation?

    With Ada and her children all being missing in 1911 my guess is that
    (a) the surname has been mistranscribed
    (b) perhaps they're in the workhouse, and only indexed by their initials
    (c) they've been missed off completely

    Ada is not with her parents in 1911. Have you checked that's she's not with a married sister and has been mis-listed under her sister's married name?
    Reference for Henry and Isabel in 1911 RG14/5814 SN90

    (Sorry, have to dash off for the moment.)

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lesley Robertson View Post
    I can't find birth registrations for either child in those years with Hawkins as a middle name, BUT FreBMD does show Elizabeth and Frederick Hawkins, registered 1905 and 1910, respectively, in Christchurch.This may indicate that they were indeed born before their parents married, when they would have been registered under their mother's name. Frederick could be their father after a late marriage or was their stepfather.

    If you don't already have them, you should find the birth certificates informative.

    Do you have his service number?

    Regimental number was 18913.

    I forgot to add in my original opening post, that the Attestation Form says Ada Lucy Hawkins was a Spinster and that the marriage and births of the 2 children were verified by Somerset House on the Descriptive Form of Enlistment in 1914..

  5. #5
    Dundee10
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    If you are using Ancestry then unfortunately there are great chunks of the 1911 not name indexed. I don't know if that is what is happening here but perhaps someone will be able to give the census reference from FMP.

    https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWQJ-CFF

  6. #6
    Dundee10
    Guest

    Default

    OK, I had a proper look.....

    Class: RG14; Piece: 5977; Schedule Number: 353; Enumeration District : 43

  7. #7

    Default

    To my cousin in Australia and myself - it is a conundrum - but then, this is nothing new..lol

  8. #8

    Default

    Thank you Pam.....the feeling is - they have been left off altogether - tried to find other records for the children - no luck..

  9. #9
    Dundee10
    Guest

    Default

    You will find Ada at the link I posted above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dundee10 View Post
    OK, I had a proper look.....

    Class: RG14; Piece: 5977; Schedule Number: 353; Enumeration District : 43
    She is living with her sister Isabel Kate at Southampton. Isabel was firstly married to Edward Henry ANDREWS in 1901 and secondly to John Charles MANSTON in the Dec quarter 1911 so they weren't married at the time of the census. The child's birth was registered as Arthur William HAWKINS in 1908.

    You need to do as Pam advised and find all of Ada's siblings to see if the children are with any of them and enumerated under their surname.

    I cannot find this child in the Ancestry indexes - Elizabeth HAWKINS aged 5 in an institution in Bournemouth.

    https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWQD-GS9

  10. #10
    Name well known on Brit-Gen
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    A bit more for your conundrum / jigsaw

    #9
    You need to do as Pam advised and find all of Ada's siblings to see if the children are with any of them and enumerated under their surname
    RG12; Piece: 907; Folio: 18; Page: 34
    Henry Hawkins 38 b Lymington stamped Christchurch Hampshire
    Isabel Hawkins 36 b Lymington stamped Christchurch Hampshire
    Louisa Hawkins 12 b Lymington stamped Christchurch Hampshire
    Arnold Hawkins 7 b Lymington stamped Christchurch Hampshire
    Ada Hawkins 5 b Lymington stamped Christchurch Hampshire
    Annie Hawkins 4 b Lymington stamped Christchurch Hampshire
    Ernest Hawkins 2 b Lymington stamped Christchurch Hampshire
    Mabel Hawkins 3 m b Lymington stamped Christchurch Hampshire

    1901
    RG13; Piece: 1037; Folio: 35; Page: 2
    head of household Benjamin J Tucker 75
    Ada Hawkins aged 15 servant

    Ada's death
    Name: Ada L Young
    Birth Date: abt 1885
    Date of Registration: Mar 1930
    Age at Death: 45
    Registration district: Southampton
    Inferred County: Hampshire
    Volume: 2c Page: 39

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