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  1. #1
    Starting to feel at home
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    Default Need help searching for great grandparents

    Hello everyone. Apologies if I am posting in wrong area here.

    I'm new here. Glad to be here! And I'm hoping someone can shed some light on my brick wall.

    Trying to find info on great grandparents: British West Indies, Trinidad (and Scotland, France?)

    I have been searching for the longest time for some information on my maternal 2nd great grandmother and also her parents.

    Also needing information on her husband, my 2nd great grandfather and his parents. Which I didn't think would be so difficult as his last name is Spicer (Elvon Spicer). But I've been unable to find anything. It’s been driving me crazy really.

    I had been searching for my great grandmother's birth and/or death certificates hoping to obtain more info about her parents. My great grandmother is Doris Sybil Spicer (maiden), I believe born in British West Indies. She was born around 28 February 1903 and passed away around 1 May 1981. Doris lived in Trinidad and later in New York and then finally in Oakland California. She passed away during a trip while in Trinidad though. I was able to find her marriage certificate from New York, which confused me more because the spelling of my 2nd great grandmother’s name (Doris’ mother) is different than what I’ve been using to search.

    My 2nd great grandmother’s first name was Ellen or Elenor or Eleanor. Her last name (maiden) was Loinsworth or Lornswarth or Lornsworth or Larnsworth or Larnswarth….? She was born around 1880 and passed away around 1957 (age 77). She passed away in Trinidad (Belmont).

    I have an unfinished handwritten family tree that a family member had started working on way back (I can’t reach him now to ask about it). Next to the name Loinsworth (Ellen’s father) it says ‘Scotland’ in parenthesis. For Ellen’s mother, I can’t make out the spelling of her last name… it may say Devertille or Deveitlle, or Deventlle, or De Verteuil , and next to that name in parenthesis it says ‘French’.

    Does anyone have any tips on where/how to search for any records for B.W.I.? I've had the most difficult time. And seems I cannot get any Trinidad records unless I go to the Registrar General's office there. Problem is, I'm in California lol. So that is not an option unfortunately. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.

    Maia
    Last edited by Pam Downes; 04-01-2017 at 2:07 AM. Reason: Amended way dates were written

  2. #2
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change.
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    Default

    Hi Maia,

    I can't be of much help at the moment (it's 2am in the UK so I should be asleep ) but I've taken the liberty of amending the way you wrote the birth and death dates of Doris Spicer.

    This is because in the UK using just numbers we would write 1 May 1981 as 1/5/1981, not 5/1/1981 as you do in the US. It's caused confusion before when people have found an event happening on a different date to that originally quoted until it's been realised it's because the date was written 'US style'.

    Does anyone have any tips on where/how to search for any records for B.W.I.? I've had the most difficult time. And seems I cannot get any Trinidad records unless I go to the Registrar General's office there. Problem is, I'm in California lol. So that is not an option unfortunately. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.
    Have you checked out Cindi's List? They have some Caribbean researchers listed (haven't checked out if they're actually based in the islands). https://www.
    cyndislist.com/caribbean/

    I think most of the records you want might be too recent for them but FamilySearch is another site worth checking.
    https://familysearch.org/
    As is the Trinidad section of the World GenWeb. https://www.
    rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ttowgw/

    Depending on the time they were there, have you found anyone on the US census?

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  3. #3
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    Default

    Thank you for amending! I should have thought about that.

    I haven't had luck on the places you've mentioned unfortunately...

  4. #4
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    Default

    I should have also mentioned in my first post (not sure how to edit it), I believe Elvon Spicer was born in UK.

  5. #5

    Default

    As Pam said, Familysearch.org (the site run by the LDS) includes a fair amount of West Indies data. However, be careful - a lot of it is submitted trees which are only as good as the researcher who submitted them.

    Scotland's easier - we have our own Scottish forums and there's a collection of How-To files HERE.

    What was Ellen's father's forename?

    BTW Before WW1, spelling of names varied enormously - imagine someone with one accent giving their name to a clerk who's used to another accent and who writes what he heard...

  6. #6
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    Default

    Thank you Lesley. I have tried Familysearch.org but will try some more. Yes, spelling of names may certainly be off, adding to the difficulty of this all. I do know Spicer is spelled correctly though (Elvon Spicer, Ellen's husband).

    I do not know Ellen's father's forename, I wish I did!

    Thank you for the Scotland link, I will look into it.

  7. #7
    Name well known on Brit-Gen
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    Just trying to grasp your search
    familysearch

    Owen Toolsie Father
    New York, New York City Municipal Deaths, 1795-1949
    birth: B W I
    spouse: Doris Spicer
    child: Pearl Toolsie

    Another child

    Barbara Grace Toolsie
    [Barbara Toolsie Weng]*
    [Barbara Weng]*
    SSN:
    118207978
    Gender:
    Female
    Birth Date:
    28 Jun 1925
    Birth Place:
    New York, New York
    [N Y C, New York]*
    Death Date:
    1 Jul 2004
    Father:
    Owen J Toolsie
    Mother:
    Doris S Spicer
    Type of Claim:
    Original SSN.
    Notes:
    Oct 1943: Name listed as BARBARA GRACE TOOLSIE; May 1955: Name listed as BARBARA TOOLSIE WENG; 08 Mar 1993: Name listed as BARBARA T WENG

    There are 2 sailings with this person
    1) 1928 with a Edna Dallacosta
    2) Edna Toolsie aged 30

    A possibility
    .S., Index to Alien Arrivals at Canadian Atlantic and Pacific Seaports, 1904-1944
    Passenger Lists
    Name:*D Spicer
    Birth:*abt 1903
    Arrival: 1911
    Other:* USA

  8. #8
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    Default

    Thanks so much for looking into this. Yes, please see below. I am searching for info on Doris Spicer's mother Ellen (Or similar spelling, Eleanor, etc.). Needing information on Ellen's mother and father:

    I've been told Ellen's mother's maiden surname name was de Verteuil (but I don't have her forename). "French" is handwritten on family tree about her surname.

    I've been told Ellen's father's surname was Loinsworth (but I don't have his forename). "Scotland" is handwritten on family tree about the surname.

    Ellen's husband (my great great granfather) is Elvon Spicer and I'm needing info on his father and mother as well. I was told he may have been born in England and had a brother that stayed there. And may have had some sort of court/law occupation.


    Yes! These are my grandparents/great grandparents listed below. I just can't find info on Doris' parents (and her husband's parents). They are who I'm searching for.


    Owen Toolsie Father
    New York, New York City Municipal Deaths, 1795-1949
    birth: B W I
    spouse: Doris Spicer
    child: Pearl Toolsie

    Another child

    Barbara Grace Toolsie
    [Barbara Toolsie Weng]*
    [Barbara Weng]*
    SSN:
    118207978
    Gender:
    Female
    Birth Date:
    28 Jun 1925
    Birth Place:
    New York, New York
    [N Y C, New York]*
    Death Date:
    1 Jul 2004
    Father:
    Owen J Toolsie
    Mother:
    Doris S Spicer
    Type of Claim:
    Original SSN.
    Notes:
    Oct 1943: Name listed as BARBARA GRACE TOOLSIE; May 1955: Name listed as BARBARA TOOLSIE WENG; 08 Mar 1993: Name listed as BARBARA T WENG

    There are 2 sailings with this person
    1) 1928 with a Edna Dallacosta (I'm not sure who this is... I would have to look into it)
    2) Edna Toolsie aged 30 (This is an aunt of mine)



    A possibility Would this have any other info, maybe Ellen's info as passenger also?
    .S., Index to Alien Arrivals at Canadian Atlantic and Pacific Seaports, 1904-1944
    Passenger Lists
    Name:*D Spicer
    Birth:*abt 1903
    Arrival: 1911
    Other:* USA

  9. #9
    Name well known on Brit-Gen
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    Default

    There are 2 sailings with this person
    1) 1928 with a Edna Dallacosta (I'm not sure who this is... I would have to look into it)
    2) Edna Toolsie aged 30 (This is an aunt of mine)
    Whilst I realised you may have this info, I was just trying to get a feel for the family.......

    I did wonder if they were relatives, why / who else would you trust a child with!

    A possibility Would this have any other info, maybe Ellen's info as passenger also?
    U.S., Index to Alien Arrivals at Canadian Atlantic and Pacific Seaports, 1904-1944
    Passenger Lists
    Name:*D Spicer
    Birth:*abt 1903
    Arrival: 1911
    Other:* USA
    This is handwritten and only contains the initials of what looks like a family, there are 3 pages like this but you have to flick thru' the 'T' list to the next page. This ancestry

  10. #10
    Name well known on Brit-Gen
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    Default

    How sure of Elvon as a forename? There is a transcription of the 1924 marriage on the subscription site that states EDwin is the father and Ellen Lornswarth/Lornsworth is mother.

    Looking at the original marriage certificate would confirm the names and father's occupation etcgiven at the time also if witnesses, who may be related.

    Name:James O Toolsie
    Gender: Male
    Marriage Date: 15 Nov 1924
    Marriage Place: Bronx, New York, USA
    Spouse: Doris S Spicer
    Certificate Number: 4898

    In the UK we order certificates thru the General Record Office at a cost £9.25 ( cheaper than say via ancestry).
    Ancestry do have a service but you would have to check whether it is cost effective

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