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  1. #1
    bettyespana
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    Default Clare(Cheshire)/Kirk(Derbyshire)

    JOSEPH CLARE: c.1768 Stockport Cheshire,bapt.28.6.1768 High St Presbytarian Church Stockport.
    Father:James Clare - Mother:Ann?

    Married:Frances Kirk 14.4.1786 @ St Michaels Derby, Derbyshire
    Children:Martha 1786,John 1790,Fanny 1792,James 1795,John 1797

    Martha was b.Derby & James was b.1797 - James was my OH 2xGt Grandfather & he was a tailor in Manchester.

    FRANCES KIRK:b.13.2.1770 Bradwell Derbyshire
    Father: Benjamin Kirk - Mother: Frances Bocking

    Any information on either Clare or Kirk appreciated as I can get no further with either lines.

  2. #2
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    Can't find anything re the Clare family but have found a few things re Kirk/Bocking.

    Benjamin Kirk and Frances Bocking married in Hope, Derbyshire 7/10/1758 and had at least 8 children.

    There are two baptisms for a Benjamin Kirk in Hope, one in 1731 and one in 1749 both with parents Benjamin and Phebey/Phoebe. Can't find a death for the first Ben so I'm not sure if there were two sets of parents called Ben and Phoebe or just one. Nor can I find any marriages between a Ben and a Phoebe either.

    Frances Bocking was baptised in Hope in 1736, daughter of Ralph Bocking and Mary.

    Ralph Bocking married Mary Kitchen 8/1/1732 in Hope. Mary was the daughter of John Kitchen and his wife, Frances. She was baptised in 1710.

    All this info came from familysearch and FreeReg. Hope it helps.

    Emeltee

  3. #3
    bettyespana
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    Thank you Emeltee this certainly helps a lot.It is strange why we cannot get any further with the Clares.At first I thought Joseph may have been Irish & then found his baptism in Stockport.As you will see previously I only have his birth as c.1768 maybe he was born earlier in Ireland. I have son James b.Stockport 1795 & his Stockport bapt 19.4.1795 St Marys Stockport. & the Clare's lived & worked around the Manchester/Salford area at least until the mid 1900s
    regards
    betty

  4. #4
    janbooth
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    The actual register image of Joseph's baptism in 1768 at Stockport High Street Chapel shows him to be the son of Joseph & Ann CLARK of Torkinton Hall. Torkington Hall is in what is now Hazel Grove, Stockport.

    Siblings are John baptised in 1760, Robert in 1762, James baptised in 1763, Margaret in 1765 and Richard in 1771.

    Possible marriage at Stockport St Mary on 7 February 1757 of a James CLARK & Ann HAMILTON.

    FindmyPast, a pay per view site, have the register images of all the baptisms mentioned above and the marriage plus the marriage licence bond & allegation (which gives you more details of James's profession and where he is from). I cannot give you full details, I'm afraid, because of their terms and conditions, but given that the surname is always shown as CLARK, it could be why you have not managed to trace the CLARE line back!

    Janet
    Last edited by janbooth; 28-07-2016 at 9:50 AM. Reason: Extra text

  5. #5
    janbooth
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    It is interesting that although the baptisms were Presbyterian, there is a burial record at St Mary, Stockport for James CLARK jnr in 1781. Can't find a burial record with any certainty for James snr at the moment, though.

    Ann CLARK looks as if she was buried at St Mary in 1815, aged 84. Full register details on FMP.

    Janet

  6. #6
    bettyespana
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    I see what you mean Janet.Looking at what you found I think there has been some mistakes elsewhere.
    Here is what I have working back from my OH Grandmother Lucy Clare whose birth cert etc. we have.
    Lucy was b.23.1 1866 21 Bootle Street Manchester & her parents were Philip Geoffrey Clare c.1826 Hulme Manchester & Mary Ann Dickinson c.1829 Manchester?
    Philip Geoffrey was a Foundry Labourer & he & Mary m.20.8.1850@ The Cathedral Parish Church of St.George,St Mary & St Denys Manchester. They had in total 10 children. William Francis 1851,AliceA 1855,MaryA 1856,Herbert 1860,Alfred 1862 Lucy 1866,Eliza 1868,Emily 1871,Eleanor 1873,Isabella 1875.
    Philip died 1888 Salford 8D100 -Mary Ann died Decqtr 1887 Manchester BMD
    .
    Philips parents were James Clare b 6.Feb 1795 Stockport & Alice Simpson c.1776.Latchford.They married 16.12.1817 @Grappenhall & Alice was a widow.
    There were 4 children of which Eliza was b.1817 probably from Alice's 1st marriage.Susannah was b.1820,Philip Geoffrey 1826,Sarah Ann 1827.
    James Clare was a Tailor by trade
    The information then goes a bit awry as that is where I have Joseph Clare as James CLARES father but his mother as Francis KIRK.

    I really don't know which direction to go in now.I definitely know the name was Clare & not Clark.Unfortunately I do not subscribe & cant afford to pay to view sites anymore.
    Betty

  7. #7
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    Based on the info in your last post the James Clare baptised 1795 in Stockport is the son of Joseph and Fanny. They also had John 1790, Fanny 1792 and another John 1797.

    The only marriage I can find which fits the dates is Joseph Clair and Fanney Kirk 14/4/1786 in Derby.

    There is a burial in Stockport at Tiviot Dale Methodist for a Joseph Clare born 1759 buried 1832 and the only births I can see around 1759 are

    Joseph Clare 1757 Campton, Bedfordshire parents John and Anne
    Joseph Clare 1759 Shoreditch Joseph and Elizabeth
    Joseph Clare 1761 Walsall, Staffs William and Elizabeth

    Everything else comes up with the name Clark.

    Emeltee

  8. #8
    janbooth
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    Let me see if I can help you a bit, then Betty.

    I can confirm the marriage at Grappenhall in 1817 although it does not state that Alice SIMPSON was a widow on the register.

    FindmyPast have the following:

    Eliza CLARE baptised 1819 at High Leigh
    Mary Ann CLARE baptised 1819 at High Leigh
    Susanna CLARE baptised 1820 at Lymm, Cheshire

    Also another child Peter CLARE born 1821 and baptised 1822 at Grappenhall - details of parents are correct, so I am pretty sure he is one of yours.

    Ancestry have the birth/baptism of:

    Philip born 10 April 1825, baptised 8 October 1838 at Manchester Cathedral son of James & Alice CLAIR, Hulme, Tailor

    James CLARE looks as if he died prior to the 1841 census (HO107/583/14, folio 36, page 16) as wife Alice is living at 21 Parker Street, Hulme, with Eliza aged 24, Susannah aged 21, Phillip aged 16, Sarah Ann aged 4, James aged 3 months and Jane aged 2 months. 1851 census (HO107/2221, page 3) shows Alice CLARE living at 60 Chester Street, aged 78?, a House Keeper born Latchford, together with daughter Susannah aged 31, son Philip aged 25 born Hulme and granddaughter Susannah aged 6 also born Hulme. The census sheet is very faint, so quite difficult to make out the full details.

    Philip CLARE married Mary DICKINSON at Manchester Cathedral on 20 August 1850, he being shown as aged 23, bachelor, Spinner, 60 Chester Street, father James CLARE, Tailor, and she as aged 21, spinster, 30 Bootle Street, father John DICKINSON, Tailor. Philip signed and Mary made her mark.

    Will try to find out some more after lunch.

    Janet

  9. #9
    bettyespana
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    Quote Originally Posted by janbooth View Post
    Let me see if I can help you a bit, then Betty.

    I can confirm the marriage at Grappenhall in 1817 although it does not state that Alice SIMPSON was a widow on the register.

    FindmyPast have the following:

    Eliza CLARE baptised 1819 at High Leigh
    Mary Ann CLARE baptised 1819 at High Leigh
    Susanna CLARE baptised 1820 at Lymm, Cheshire

    Also another child Peter CLARE born 1821 and baptised 1822 at Grappenhall - details of parents are correct, so I am pretty sure he is one of yours.

    Ancestry have the birth/baptism of:

    Philip born 10 April 1825, baptised 8 October 1838 at Manchester Cathedral son of James & Alice CLAIR, Hulme, Tailor

    James CLARE looks as if he died prior to the 1841 census (HO107/583/14, folio 36, page 16) as wife Alice is living at 21 Parker Street, Hulme, with Eliza aged 24, Susannah aged 21, Phillip aged 16, Sarah Ann aged 4, James aged 3 months and Jane aged 2 months. 1851 census (HO107/2221, page 3) shows Alice CLARE living at 60 Chester Street, aged 78?, a House Keeper born Latchford, together with daughter Susannah aged 31, son Philip aged 25 born Hulme and granddaughter Susannah aged 6 also born Hulme. The census sheet is very faint, so quite difficult to make out the full details.

    Philip CLARE married Mary DICKINSON at Manchester Cathedral on 20 August 1850, he being shown as aged 23, bachelor, Spinner, 60 Chester Street, father James CLARE, Tailor, and she as aged 21, spinster, 30 Bootle Street, father John DICKINSON, Tailor. Philip signed and Mary made her mark.

    Will try to find out some more after lunch.

    Janet
    Yes this certainly fits with everything I have apart from Alice Simpson not being a widow.
    Someone quite awhile ago sent me the info that she may have been the widow of Samuel Simpson & put a ref with the info
    It said Nest:M01400619.100 M0619.1 I don't know what these numbers are but I think the info was from some Cheshire registers.

    Interesting that the Clares lived in Bootle Street when Lucy Clare was born in 1866 & also the Dickinsons lived in Bootle Street in Manchester & both with Tailors in the family.In the 1841c H0107/569/11/F36 Mary is there with her family aged 11 & the full address is Brown Square,Bootle Street Manchester.
    Betty

  10. #10
    janbooth
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    Made a bit of a boob in my post 4, Betty. Joseph's parents should read James & Ann CLARK - brain not working properly again!!

    Following on from post 8. Sarah Ann CLARE baptised 15 October 1837 at Manchester Cathedral daughter of Eliza CLARE, Manchester, Spinster.

    25 December 1842 at Manchester Cathedral William Henry LIGHTFOOT, full age, bachelor, Porter, 7 Parker Street, no father mentioned & Eliza CLARE, full age, spinster, Parker Street, father James CLARE, Tailor. Eliza made her mark.

    22 September 1850 at Manchester Cathedral Peter CLARE, 26, bachelor, Mechanic, 60 Chester Street, father James CLARE, Tailor & Sarah MOUNTAIN, 24, spinster, 6 Joddrell Street, father Joseph MOUNTAIN, Seaman. Sarah made her mark.

    However, so far I have still been unable to find a burial for James CLARE - do you have his death record, Betty? Otherwise, we do not know when approximately he was born as I cannot find him on census records and his marriage record gives us no clue either.

    Janet

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