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Thread: uniform

  1. #1
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    I am totally confused over this uniform. I have ben told by several people that this man is in the 17th lancers in the Boer War. But then another person said
    "I have doubts that Carson was a 17th Lancer, the image shows he is a Cpl, yet he is not wearing a rank arm badge which was worn by all Cpls and above, also the scroll pattern above the cuff is not 17th Lancers.
    He may have been in the Yeomanry"
    Can anyone identify this uniform please?
    Sucy

  2. #2

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    Have you taken a a slightly different approach and looked for him on the various databases showing Anglo-Boer soldiers? What was his full name?

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    This man has a complicated story. He joined the South Lancashire regiment in 1894 ( I have his attestation papers.) In 1897 it says he was posted but does not say where. In 1901 he is back on his papers. So where was he for 4 years. His photo shows him not wearing a South Lancashire uniform I have been told he is wearing a 17th Lancers uniform and then another person as you see says it is not. There is a John Carson serving with the Imperial Light Horse who is wounded in 1900 in the Boer War. I understand that this unit was created by the British in 1899 in South Africa. I cannot prove this is him and I can not understand how he changed units. I am hoping that if I can at least nail down the regiment from the photo I might get further.

  4. #4
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    Are you talking about 4497 John Carson of the South Lancashire Regiment, son of Francis Carson?

    This looks fairly straightforward to me.

    He served in South Africa in the 1st Battalion of the South Lancashire Regiment. This information is in WO97 (the service record on Findmypast) and in WO100 (Medal Rolls on Ancestry). He was discharged in 1906.

    And he was a Private, not a Corporal.

  5. #5
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    Thank you for your help in sorted out John's posting. I am still left with the problem of what uniform is he wearing? It seems not to be the South Lancashire Regiment? So now I wonder is it really him? Answers it seems but now more questions.

  6. #6
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    Why do you think it's him?

    Is that original hand tinting or has it been mucked around in Photoshop?

    Would you describe the man in the photo as having a sallow complexion and dark brown hair?

  7. #7
    SueNSW
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    Quote Originally Posted by sucy88 View Post
    In 1897 it says he was posted but does not say where. In 1901 he is back on his papers. So where was he for 4 years.
    Can't help with the uniform, but presuming he is the man that Peter found - to answer your question - he was in India. Service from 29/10/1897 (normally the date shown is the date a man left Britain to sail to his posting) until 2/3/1902 when he arrived in South Africa.

    The 2nd battalion that he went to were already in India (Kamptee at the time) so he went out as part of a reinforcement draft.

    In South Africa he served with the 1st Bn - their Medal Roll for the Queen's South Africa Medal asks the question "Any other Corps in which served in South Africa" and his entry says "no". He is also listed there as a Private.

    Have you been in touch with the Lancashire Infantry Museum - https://www.lancashireinfantrymuseum....hire-regiment/

    Is it possible the photo is of someone else???

  8. #8

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    Sucy, it might be useful if you tell this forum as much as you told the AngloBoerWar forum..... Especially the message about WDYTYA.
    It's much easier to help if any available information is supplied.

    Did you act on their advice to check Ancestry and/or FMP?

    I see that they think that the uniform might be earlier than 1900, could it be an earlier ancestor?

  9. #9
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    To answer the question about the photo. I have the original so it has been nowhere near photo shot. I have been told it is hand tinted and it looks that way to me. He does seem to have dark brown hair with a hint of red.
    I asked about this first at WDYTYA live about three years ago and the military man sad he though the photo was of a 17th Lancer. The dates he gave me meant it could not be my grandfather as he would have been only about 16 it could not be his brother Thomas as he would have been about 9. So that left John who would have been about 24. The photo came from my gt grandmother's descendants in Canada who I managed to track down. On the back it says Thomas Carson which based on the date given it cannot be. Gt grandmother left her family in 1890 and as far as I am aware had no more contact only by maybe the odd letter which she would have not been able to read and would have had to be read to her. She last saw Thomas aged 18mnths when she left him in Liverpool.
    I then found the service record for John and was then confused about how he could be in the photo if he was a 17th lancer and initially with a gap, as I thought in his service record. I wrote to the magazine with the info I thought was correct. They suggested it was a 17th lancer uniform on a man in a hand tinted photo. I followed a a few links but it came to nothing.
    This year at WDYTYA live I queried the uniform again and was told this time they did not think it was 17th Lancers but gave me no clue as to what regiment. So I tried the museum for the 17th and again was told

    "I have doubts that Carson was a 17th Lancer, the image shows he is a Cpl, yet he is not wearing a rank arm badge which was worn by all Cpls and above, also the scroll pattern above the cuff is not 17th Lancers.

    He may have been in the Yeomanry. I have also checked the 17th Lancers medal roll for the Boer War again he does not appear.
    You might contact the National Archives at Kew who may be able to provide you with a service record."

    So now total confusion reigns as to what regiment and which brother (if any)

  10. #10

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    Hi Sucy88, the uniform is Victorian, Cavalry, and I am sure he is 17th Lancers, the White Plastron is not worn, but not unusual for the uniform as it has a single row of buttons in the centre of the tunic. Possibly this is the Marching out or Off Duty Uniform.

    The Pill Box hat is 17th Lancers, White Band, very distinctive, as are the Trousers with the distinctive White double stripes.

    See the following image:

    https://www.britishempire.co.uk/force...sducksbury.htm

    However the Cuffs do cause some doubt as normally for this period they are solid white cuffs. The Lanyard again looks to be a match for 17th Lancers. Whom did you speak with at the Museum? Was it the curator?

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