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Thread: Marriage cert

  1. #1
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    Default Marriage cert

    This question will be actually 3 thank you.

    What would a bride/groom I 1949 be recorded as on their marriage cert if they had been divorced..

    Would it be possible to remarry in 1949 without being divorced from previous spouse?

    Where would I start looking for a divorce record if one existed.

    Thank you members in advance for your help

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    I'll answer them backwards....Post 1858 Divorce case files are on Ancestry and post 1858 decree absolutes are available from the Gov.uk website....see this reseach guide however note that only 0.2% of case files after 1938 survive.

    in 1949, it was only possible to remarry legally if a peron had been widowed, divorced or more rarely annuled.

    an example of a 1939 marriage would show Groom as eg Bob JONES, groom's condition: formerly the husband of Betty GREEN formerly WHITE spinster from whom he obtained a divorce and as eg Bride: Ann BROWN formerly SMITH, bride's condition: formerly the wife of Robert SMITH from whom she obtained a divorce.
    Michelle

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    in 1949, it was only possible to remarry legally if a peron had been widowed, divorced or more rarely annuled.
    Or previous marriage void (scraping the bottom of the barrel here )

    from whom he obtained a divorce
    I agree that would apply in 1949. I think the form of words used today is "previous marriage dissolved".

    BUT... isn't it usual to start with an actual certificate rather than speculate about what one might show if it actually existed?

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    I have the 1949 cert but it says groom bachelor, I think he may have married in 1936....then again in 1949...just waiting on 1936 cert to confirm .
    This is all tying together my post re the 1939 register about finding dad living with a Nellie I have sorted out who Nellie is.

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    My post #2 had a typo...the example was from a 1949 marriage certificate of mine (not 1939), copied word for word except I changed the surnames ...though both parties are now deceased! I believe the wording is slightly different if a person was the one who was divorced by their previous spouse.
    Michelle

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    Continuing on with this thread..
    I now have the 1936 Marriage cert confirming indeed a marriage in 1936.....couple went out of their area to marry.
    Groom put his age up bride put her age down..ages 22 and 36...but on cert 25and 29.
    (All parties involved are now deceased)

    Several questions:

    All info on the certified copy of entry from GRO is filled in by same handwriting inc bride and groom and witnesses, I have never seen this before..usually couple sign or make their mark and witnesses do same ?

    NO one in the family appeared to know of this marriage, and my siblings and I had no knowledge of a previous marriage, my oldest living cousin aged 80 remembers them living together but thought they were defacto.

    I have this awful feeling that he simply remarried. Was this common in 1940s...I know it was illegal.

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    All info on the certified copy of entry from GRO is filled in by same handwriting inc bride and groom and witnesses, I have never seen this before..usually couple sign or make their mark and witnesses do same ?
    In all but a tiny number of cases, you will not see an original signature on a GRO issued marriage certificate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by valg View Post
    I have this awful feeling that he simply remarried. Was this common in 1940s...I know it was illegal.
    It still is illegal ...I tried to see if I could find any statistics about bigamy but failed.

    The thing to be remembered is that even today there is no method that a registrar could employ to check if someone getting married says that they are single, divorced or widowed to confirm that they are telling the truth, because there is no link between the various certificates, registrations etc.

    I suspect that even today it continues to happen - the penalties if caught are pretty light - the current sentencing guidelines are:

    A custodial sentence will be appropriate where one party has been deceived and suffered injury or where offence committed for money to evade immigration.

    R v Crowhurst unrep
    2 counts of bigamy. One where marriage not consummated and second where wife pregnant. 18 months reduced to 4 on appeal

    R v Smith 1994 15 Cr App R (S) 407
    D married 3 times. Used divorce papers from 2nd marriage to "marry" 4th wife. Separated after a few months. 6 months approved

    R v Cairns [1997] 1 Cr App R (S)
    D married 2 women. Both ceremonies for money with a view to women escaping immigration controls. G plea. No pre cons. 9 months

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    Quote Originally Posted by valg View Post
    This question will be actually 3 thank you.

    snip

    Would it be possible to remarry in 1949 without being divorced from previous spouse?

    snip
    Sorry to contradict what others have said but yes since 1604 it has been perfectly legal to marry a second person when ones spouse is still alive.
    In fact in certain circumstances it is perfectly legal to marry a second person in full knowledge that the first spouse is still alive.

    In the first instance if the married couple have been separated from each other in excess of seven years and the person wishing to marry has no knowledge of his/her spouse being alive during that time he/she is free to marry.

    In the second instance if the absent spouse has been "beyond the Seas by the Space of seven Years" it makes no difference if the remaining spouse knows whether they are alive or dead they are free to marry another person.

    If the former spouse returns the second marriage is declared void.

    SUPPOSITION :

    The period you are asking about 1936 to 1949 was a time of turmoil when many people did lose touch with each other.
    It is feasible that the couple lost touch either intentionally or by accident.

    In most cases of a second marriage it would be mentioned that the former spouse was overseas or thought to be dead (note the spouse did not have to be legally declared dead (that was mainly for inheritance purposes)).

    You mention “All parties involved are now deceased”, we must therefore assume the first wife was still alive at the time of the second marriage.
    Was she still in the same area, or had she moved?
    Did the second marriage take place in the same area or some distance away?

    Do the details on the first marriage confirm you have the correct couple marrying as it seems strange that no one in the family appeared to know of this marriage and indeed one family member who remember the couple living together assumed they were simply living together rather than married?

    Have you checked to see if people with the same names were born in the relevant period?

    Cheers
    Guy
    Last edited by Guy Etchells; 20-05-2016 at 6:48 AM. Reason: Omitted letter
    As we have gained from the past, we owe the future a debt, which we pay by sharing today.

  10. #10
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    Thank you for your reply.
    Yes I am 100% sure that the couple is correct.
    Address on marriage cert for 1936 corresponds with address on 1939 register, also corresponds with address bride was at on 1911 census.

    Fathers names and occupations are correct.
    Bride and grooms names are correct.

    In saying family didn't know, I only have 1 cousin living who remembers anything and she was only a child, she last remembers visiting them about 1947 and she was only 10, she just knew that the older family members disapproved inc the grooms parents.
    The second marriage was in 1949.
    My next step, actually 2 steps, obtain the WW2 service records and see who is next of kin.
    Apply for search of divorce records between 1936-1949.
    If none I will then search between 1952-1962 as according to the 1939 register the bride changed her surname, her surname was changed back to the surname her son was registered as.

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