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  1. #1
    A fountain of knowledge KathNZ's Avatar
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    Default Elspeth Skene/Murdoch

    Hello all, I need some help to make sense of one person in this family.

    John Murdoch married Ann McIntosh - 12 Dec 1863, Knockando, Moray, Scotland. I have them both on the census in 1861 and earlier.
    Their daughter Elspeth Murdoch is born 10 Mar 1864 at Rothes, Moray – I have the certificate.
    Sometime before 1866 the family emigrated to Australia where Barbara Anne Laurie Murdoch was born in 1866 in South Australia followed by Chrysostom Duncan Murdoch (later called James Alexander ) in 1869.
    The family then moved to Hokitika, New Zealand where 3 more children were born in 1872, 1874 & 1878. I have found Ann and the 2 girls (named as Eliza & Barbara) on a passenger list from Melbourne to Hokitika arriving 21 Jul 1870 on the “Rangitoto”. John presumably came earlier to set up home for the family.
    The problem I have is that in August 1883 John Marks married Elspeth Skene, spinster.
    John was 46 and Elspeth was 21 which makes her dob C1861. I have the marriage cert. and it gives her birthplace as Rothes, Scotland and her parents as Robert Skene, Millowner and Ann Murdoch formerly Ann McIntosh.

    Sadly Elspeth died in April 1884 and her death notice gives no clues but when John Marks died in 1914 his death notice says “deceased was a widower, his wife being a daughter of John Murdoch, of Ross, who predeceased him many years ago”. Other newspaper reports call her Miss Murdoch !

    I am trying to find out if Elspeth Skene b C1862and Elspeth/Eliza Murdoch b C 1864 were the same person. I cannot find a birth reg. on Scotland’s people for Elspeth under either Skene of McIntosh c1861. Ditto for Family Search. The photo of her gravestone is hard to read, the age could be 20 and the death reg. entry says 21 years old.
    She obviously knew that John Murdoch was not her father by the info given in the marriage cert.

  2. #2
    Dundee10
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    Quote Originally Posted by KathNZ View Post
    Hello all, I need some help to make sense of one person in this family.
    Sometime before 1866 the family emigrated to Australia
    This is most likely their arrival in SA in 1866

    https://www.theshipslist.com/ships/au...anta1866.shtml

  3. #3
    Dundee10
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    Who were the witnesses at the MARKS/SKENE wedding?

  4. #4

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    How/when did Elspeth S get to Oz if she wasn't Miss Murdoch?
    I assume that she married John there? I can't find her on the 1871 (or 1861) census for Scotland..

  5. #5
    A fountain of knowledge KathNZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dundee10 View Post
    This is most likely their arrival in SA in 1866

    https://www.theshipslist.com/ships/au...anta1866.shtml
    Thanks for that, I hadn't found it

  6. #6
    A fountain of knowledge KathNZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesley Robertson View Post
    How/when did Elspeth S get to Oz if she wasn't Miss Murdoch?
    I assume that she married John there? I can't find her on the 1871 (or 1861) census for Scotland..
    Elspeth married in New Zealand and as it is now 11.15 pm here I will have to go to bed. I will check back in the morning. Thanks to you all for your interest.

  7. #7
    A fountain of knowledge KathNZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dundee10 View Post
    Who were the witnesses at the MARKS/SKENE wedding?
    The witnesses were George John Roberts of Hokitika, a civil engineer and Charles Robinson, a local publican.
    Elspeth (Miss Murdoch) applied for a pupil teachership at the Arawata Flat school in March 1882 and resigned in June 1883, presumably because she was about to get married.

  8. #8
    Dundee10
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    If Elspeth SKENE and Elspeth MURDOCH were the same person then she wasn't 21 when she married in 1883. She would have needed permission to marry so perhaps rather than John not being her father she was just fudging the truth. Were they married in a church by a reputable Minister?

  9. #9
    A fountain of knowledge KathNZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dundee10 View Post
    If Elspeth SKENE and Elspeth MURDOCH were the same person then she wasn't 21 when she married in 1883. She would have needed permission to marry so perhaps rather than John not being her father she was just fudging the truth. Were they married in a church by a reputable Minister?
    You are right that if they were the same person then Elspeth would not have been 21 at the time of her marriage.
    I could not imagine a young schoolteacher pretending to be illegitimate especially because she would have been known in the community where she was married. Her parents had settled there in 1875 and moved elsewhere after 1881 . Elspeth applied for a teaching position in 1882 stating that she had some experience as a teacher in the area.
    The Registrar who signed the marriage certificate would have known the family in 1875.

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