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  1. #11
    Starting to feel at home
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    Hello geneius - I think you must have been looking at my cousin's tree on Ancestsry!
    The only information that's new to me is the link you've posted re Clementina's writing. I can't get this link to work - is there something I'm missing?

    Robert jumped ship multiple times; it's a case of third time lucky, and that's when he ended up here in Australia.

    I've posted the uniform picture because I find it difficult to tell his age from the picture. To me it looks as though he is in his mid-teens (although he left school at 15 & was sent to sea by his step-father), or he has a very youthful face for an 18 year old - the age he started work with NSW Railways as a porter. At this stage I'm leaning towards it being a railway porter uniform, unless someone knows of a school in England or Scotland that has a similar uniform.

  2. #12
    Allan F Sparrow
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    Looking again at the face, I find it more mature than I did at first; there is a certain firmness of purpose, in my view – so I think it very possible this was taken in when he was a porter in NSW.

    Allan

  3. #13
    Name well known on Brit-Gen
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    I think you must have been looking at my cousin's tree on Ancestsry!
    OOps, I do not use trees on any site as research guides as so many of them are WRONG. I just followed the links and hints having imput Robert BENSON b 1860 London into FMP & Ancestry! I always use google books as a source and the google search engine, Searching a name such as Clementina makes life easier.

    There is a lot more out there on her life, particularly as her father was a respected & monied Quaker well known and documented in the town of Hay!

    I have since found several family researchers on numerous sites but have not the time or interest in checking the validiity of their research....

    You need to look at the photgraph to see if you can identify where /who took the photograph as an additional clue to the uniform. Not every family could afford to pay to have professional photographs taken, and you now have a time scale as to your Robert Benson's activities 1860 - 1877 in the UK.

  4. #14
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    Sorry geneius . . . I should not have made such assumptions!! I'm not familiar with FMP - can you enlighten me, please? I do have a great deal of information about Robert's mother and grandfather, but am always seeking out more.

    I've now unearthed another copy of the photo; this one is the original. Unfortunately it had been cut down to fit inside Robert's mother's locket, so is just head and shoulders, but is definitely the same pose.
    On what remains of the reverse side of the photo I can read 'South London' 'photographer' and 'Rees'. It looks as though this could originally have been a Carte de Visite size print.
    This means the photo must have been taken before Robert came to Australia in 1878.

    He had been a maritime shipping apprentice from 1875; prior to that he would have been in school.

    I'm also now wondering if, when a person went to have a studio photo taken, there were various types of clothing there for the sitter to dress in prior to the photo being taken. Does anyone have any knowledge of this possibility?

  5. #15
    Knowledgeable and helpful
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    There was a David Rees operating as a photographer in South London between 1869 and c1883 at various studios. That would fit with your assumption that the photo was taken before 1878.

    https://www.
    photolondon.org.uk/pages/details.asp?pid=6430

    Peter

  6. #16
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    There is a also a reference to a book about 'the art of photographic colouring' - with 2 hand-coloured cdvs (carte de visite).

    The photo of Robert does look as if it has been coloured.

    Peter

  7. #17
    Name well known on Brit-Gen
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    Hello Di...no harm done however if I had used a'tree' you would have been advised, primarily as you would need to know where I had sourced the info from to check it!

    I think we can now safely say the photo was taken in the 7 years between 1871 when Robert was listed as being in Scotland and 1878 when he arrived in Australia. In fact he could have been back in the London ( Richmond )area virtually after the census ( 2 April 1871 ) was taken and by the summer of 1871 when Clementina married Joseph Montagu WATKINS.

    Elsinore has responded with the photographer with the same info I had found...............If you look at the jacket it appears to have buttonholes on both sides & I cannot seee how it would fasten! Could it have been a 'waiter' uniform for a shipping line?

  8. #18
    Allan F Sparrow
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    Quote Originally Posted by geneius View Post
    .If you look at the jacket it appears to have buttonholes on both sides & I cannot seee how it would fasten! Could it have been a 'waiter' uniform for a shipping line?
    It seems indeed to have both buttons and buttonholes on both sides, so I suppose it could have been fastened left over right or Right over left, whixhever was preferred.
    Last edited by Allan F Sparrow; 10-09-2015 at 4:33 PM. Reason: Correction

  9. #19
    Name well known on Brit-Gen
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    Robert William BENSON signed 'up' with the Merchant Navy for 5 years from 10 February 1875 which narrows the time frame down to 1875 -1878 he is a teenager! He was bound to John Baker WALKER SO of Middlesborough, presumably the Thomas SORBY & the North Caroline were 2 of the company ships, he jumped ship in 1877 and did not fulfil his apprenticeship
    I think the cap/hat badge will now hold the key to the uniform

    You haven't told us how or when Robert went to Australia

  10. #20
    Starting to feel at home
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    This photo is the cut-out of the original carte de visite I referred to above. Maybe it shows a better definition of the cap badge than the previous version. I wonder if those button holes are more decorative than functional?

    Robert may have been in school in London prior to his being sent to sea by his step-father.

    To fill you in on the rest of Robert's arrival in Australia; I have only recently managed to knock down this 'brick wall' that has puzzled our family for many years.

    Thanks to an New Zealand on-line newspaper website, I came across the record of his court case when he jumped ship for the second time - this time in Auckland. He and a mate were sentenced to one month's hard labor and a fine of ten pounds. During that month the ship they had been on went up to Guam and returned to Auckland. The two boys were then put back on board, and set sail for Newcastle, NSW.

    I then found the apprenticeship record for Robert's partner-in-crime. The final entry under Remarks, stated that this boy had deserted in Newcastle Australia two days after arrival there. From the shipping records in NZ newspapers the voyage across from Cape of Good Hope and the Great Australian Bight, the journey was hit by violent storms, ripped sails, green water across the ship's deck and a minor mutiny. That, plus a shipwreck experience on his first voyage, plus not having made the choice to go to sea in the first place, would give Robert good reason for desertion, I think!

    Unfortunately there are no Auckland prison records prior to 1903, so there's no way to confirm that they both finally jumped ship in Newcastle together, but all the evidence and family oral history from two of his sons leads me to believe we finally have as much of the full picture as we're likely to get.

    Thank you all for the interest you are taking in this little piece of my family puzzle, Di

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