1845 RC Marriage

[AudreyF]

I have been going round in circles for a while with Irish ancestors.

I can't find the c1856 birth of Catherine O'Hanlon but I have found, I think, the birth of her sister Eliza on 24th June 1846 in Ballyblough. Shankhill, Armagh. I know that Catherine was in and around Armagh and I know she had a sister who is mentioned as Elizabeth as witness to Catherine's marriage and as Betsey on Catherine's death certificate.

The parents of the 1846 born Eliza are John O'Hanlon and Sarah Ross. I believe this is Catherine's parents because she used 'Ross' as a middle name for a son and it passed to a grand-daughter as a middle name although, until now (?) we didn't know why.

On the RootsIreland.ie website I have found a church marriage record on 10th September 1845 for John Hanlon marrying Sarah Ross. If I understand things I read correctly there will be no marriage certificate or other record of this marriage available. So, is this marriage record all there will ever be for me on line? If the actual Church marriage record could be viewed (I could pay a researcher?) would it give me more information than I have now which is just the date, names of bride and groom, address, age, father's names and witness names.

For many reasons I am convinced this marriage is Catherine's parents and I want to 'prove' it to myself, have a 'certificate' or move on ........................

Thank you.


Audrey

[Elwyn Soutter]

Audrey,

There are no copies of civil or religious marriage certificates to find. In Ireland RC marriages weren’t recorded in the civil records till 1864. So no civil certificate. All you normally get from a church record c 1845 is the date, the 2 parties names and their 2 witnesses. Occasionally you get a townland or an occupation but in general that was not recorded till after 1864 when the church started to copy the civil format. Normally no parents names or ages and address etc in 1845. So if you have got some of that from a transcript you should consider yourself very lucky. Very few parishes recorded that amount of data in 1845.

The actual entry in the RC register can be seen in PRONI where they have copies. But you would need to pay someone to get you a copy. However the National Library in Dublin is putting these same records on-line in July (free) so if you wait till then you can see the originals then. (Possibly in Latin). They are simply putting the microfilms on-line and so you’ll need to scroll through them.

But sadly you are unlikely to get any more information from the originals.

[AudreyF]

That's very helpful and clear, thank you. I've looked at GRONI and when I fill in the details of the marriage they suggest I can view/have a record for £2 but it would seem, from what you say, that I will get no more than I have already from elsewhere.

I'll wait until July and see if more is revealed but, for the moment, content myself with what I have - and consider myself lucky.

[Elwyn Soutter]

That's very helpful and clear, thank you. I've looked at GRONI and when I fill in the details of the marriage they suggest I can view/have a record for £2 but it would seem, from what you say, that I will get no more than I have already from elsewhere.

If the marriage was RC and in 1845, them GRONI won’t have it.

Non RC marriages were registered from 1st April 1845 but the RC church wouldn’t participate (seeing it as state interference) and so it was 1.1.1864 before that changed.

If GRONI do have the marriage certificate, then it wasn’t an RC marriage. In 1845 it had to have been either a Registry office or a non RC religious ceremony. (That information will be on the certificate). And that could explain why you have got the extra information from rootsireland that wouldn't normally be found in an RC marriage register in 1845. Their transcript may be from the civil records, not the church ones.