Bernsteins of London

[Clelly]

Hi all,
I am stuck on a couple, Morris and Elizabeth (Betsy) BERNSTEIN. Betsy's maiden name is recorded on her sons marriage certificate as IGLITZKI. I have found the family on the 1911 UK census living in London. They have five children, all born in London, and Morris and Betsy are stated as being "Russia Resident". Morris is a bread baker. Although two of the children were born in London before the 1901 census I can not find them or their mother Betsy anywhere. There is a Morris Bernstein Baker listed in the 1901 census but he is listed as single.
I would like to know where they were in 1901? Were Morris and Betsy married in London or before? Also, how and when did they come to the UK?
Thank you in advance.
Claire

[christanel]

For those able to help this is the family in 1911 with basic information.
22 Copley St, Stepney Green E
Morris Bernstein 32 bread baker Russian resident (in nationality column says Polish with RES crossed out)
Betsy Bernstein 33 Russian resident (in nationality column says Polish with RES crossed out)
Louis Bernstein 13 St George London
Polly Bernstein 11 St George London
Pizer Bernstein 7 St George London
Isaac Bernstein 4 Whitechapel
Solomon Bernstein 3 Whitechapel

Married 14 years, 5 children to the marriage, all living

Christina

[Clelly]

Hi Christanel,

Yes that is them.

I just found the family in the 1901 Census with the surname Borenstein:

Morris Borenstein Head Married Male 22 1879 Baker Poland (Russia)
Bertha Borenstein Wife Married Female 24 1877 - Poland (Russia)
Lewis Borenstein Son Single Male 3 1898 - St George in the East, Middlesex, England
Polly Borenstein Dau Single Female 1 1900 - St George in the East, Middlesex, England

[Pamelawagster]

There is this marriage

Morris Berenstein
Marriage quarter 1
1896
WHITE CHAPEL
London
England
Volume 1C
Page 375

On the same page is Betsey Davis also Dinah Goldstein.

[fgiggins]

Hello, I have recently come across your message regarding the Bernsteins of London. Morris Bernstein is my wife's great grandfather. We would greatly appreciate any information that you may have uncovered regarding the family. Apart from the census information to which you refer, the only information we have relates to the immigration of Pizar Bernstein to Australia in 1923. He was also a 'bread baker' by trade. Thanks. Frank

[christanel]

Welcome to the Brit-Gen forums Frank
Unfortunately the original poster is no longer a member of Brit-Gen which is indicated by the word 'Guest' under their username and we do not hold any details for them so they will not be contacted re your post.
I will take a further look at the information you have given later and see if there is any more information online than there was back in 2015.
Meanwhile you may care to look at the 'stickys" at the top of the Jewish Roots forum to see if there are any related sites you haven't yet explored. https://www.british-genealogy.com/fo...7-Jewish-Roots
Christina

[phillip]

Frank - In case you re visit the BG Forum Christanel was quite right to point you to the Jewish Roots link. This is a Jewish family and I would have posted data back in 2015 if the original post had been put on the Jewish link. You can Pizar -Philip Bernstein on the JewishGen Online world wide Burial Registry 22 Oct 1956 Melbourne. See also the Iglitski last name on JewishGen from Lithuania and Grodno plus the various derivations of the name e.g. Eglitsky, Egliski and also Iglicki records Melbourne.

One of the key things to do when searching Jewish relatives is to consult JewishGen and use the phonetic search for name derivations. My own relatives last name bears no relationship to their UK name because they took an adopted name. Similarly, on arrival in the UK or Australia or other countries last names were written up as 'sounded'or whatever the recorded often chose to make it simple particularly if the immigrant could speak no or limited English.

[Gavin Jones]

Hello! We're also interested in Morris and Elizabeth Bernstein, who we believe are also my great grandparents! (my sister and I have different biological parents but we're doing the research into my biological family together). Frank, I imagine your wife is related to Pizar (Philip) who emigrated to Australia? We would be fascinated to learn what you have learnt about the Bernsteins (and Elizabeth's family - the Iglitzkys) including when they arrived in the UK. As far as we can tell Morris was born in Poland, moved to the UK where his children were born, then emigrated to the US, fought for the US army in WW1 and died in Australia. I wonder if that can be true. Frustratingly, we haven't managed to discover anything about their children Louis and Isaac and wondered if you know anything about them? (We've also contacted you via ancestry). Very best wuishes to you and your wife, Gavin and Candida Jones

[phillip]

I thought it might prove useful to post the GRO Birth Index records for the children of Morris Bernstein and Elizabeth Iglitski because they clearly show the important issues regarding the spelling of the mother's maiden name and future research. I posted last year on the JewishGen records regarding Iglitski derivations and the same applies to Bernstein- 'ski' as an surname ending often indicates Polish origins. It is also important to note the Pale of Settlement in Courland Russia where many Jews were forcibly settled and where numbers left to migrate to countries such as USA,UK and elsewhere.

GRO Birth Index ( main Registrar Birth index - not Free BMD) Pizar Bernstein Sept qtr 1903 St George in the East 1c 337 -mother's maiden name EAGLEITSKY; Louis Bernstein J qtr 1897 Whitechapel 1c 261 Mother's maiden name VOSHOFSKI;Solomon Bernstein J qtr 1908 Whitechapel 1c 271 -mother's maiden name DELITSKY; Isaac Bernsten M qtr 1907 1c 275 -mother's maiden name BIGLITSKY;Nb There is a Rachel Bernstein 1900 Whitechapel 1c 256 -mother's maiden name VOSCHOSSKI- this maybe Polly Bernstein

Looking at the Public family trees (Ancestry) on the lines it is unclear who holds copies of the original Birth Certificates. The GRO Birth index records for the mother's maiden name shows clearly the significant variations in surname spellings and copies of the original documents would confirm that they are the children of Morris and Elizabeth.
Similarly, reference to the GRO Marriage Index records show 1896 Marriage of a Morris Bernstein to a Betsey Davis 1896 as previously been posted. Given that the GRO Birth Index records give a derivation of the surname Iglitski it would be important to obtain a copy of the certificate to confirm that this is the correct couple. It maybe that the surname Davis was an Anglicised adopted surname because of the difficulty of pronouncing or spelling the original surname.

The Australian Death Index for Pizar aka Philip Bernstein records age 53 died 1956 father Maurice -mother Elizabeth Iglitski.

The date for Morris and Elizabeth arriving in the UK is currently not known but the birth of their children and possible 1896 marriage provides a potential date of circa early 1890s.Persecution and pogroms in Russia played a significant role in thousands of Eastern European Jews leaving their homes.

[Gavin Jones]

That is all super useful! Thank you enormously! Are the GRO birth index records available for free? I'm new to genealogy and wasn't aware that it was possible to access birth, marriage and death records - via ancestry (which is what I've mainly been using) an extra paid-for subscription is always requested... Since you've been so extremely helpful can I ask one further thing? I'm trying to establish if Isaac Bernstein - Morris and Elizabeth's third son - had any children, where the Bernstein family was living in 1935 and in 1960 and whether Elizabeth had a brother with her in the UK, possibly called Abraham or Alf Iglitzky/Eglitzky (or other derivations!). Any suggestions as to how I would find those things out? I hope I'm not pushing my luck since you've already helped out my research enormously. Thanks again, Gavin