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  1. #11
    Monty Stubble
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    I agree with you Christina. This has been the case with my Grandfather's service in WW1. The family story tells us one thing but long and painstaking research finally brought out a story which was interesting but unlike the received tale. He was incidentally wounded badly in 1917 and was expected to die. The YMCA paid for his mother to visit him in France. Quite remarkable for a woman from a very rural background to go to France! I've just done a piece for the BBC on that subject.

    With Muline (Mulina?), the story is muddled too. My mother is quite adamant about the story of the black guy but of course there is no way of investigating it. We have already found a compressing of information and names. Yesterday, however I did find her grave, now in a shocking state, so some work there then. This was with her second husband, Meredith. I can' t find the grave of her first husband, Gordon though. I will have to speak to a church warden and ask to see the burial register/grave plan.

    My mother has added some more to the story as well as a very faded photograph of her, I suspect taken in the 1880s. She also said that if I was a girl she had proposed to call me Muline but had been told by her family that wasn't acceptable, such was the dislike of the woman's memory. Strange things families?

    She apparently accompanied an uncle to the USA and Canada when he was selling local cattle there. She worked as a seamstress on the boat and repeated the trip many times. I wonder if the manifests for those ships are still around?

    Thank you so much for your help and observations.

  2. #12
    Monty Stubble
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    Incidentally the Scottish connection is interesting. I've just trawled through the census returns for the village for the 1880's to find that at least six families have their place of birth as Scotland. Most of them are farmers who had recently moved there. I wonder what prompted such a Scottish diaspora to such a rural part of Herefordshire?

  3. #13

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    The highland clearances where the landowners found it was more prifitable to have sheep on their land than tenants so they drove the people from their houses and then pulled them down................. the houses not the people. Some of the people went to Canada and America and Australia. A lot went to Northern Ireland and some came south.


    ETA: The age of Mr Gordon might have something to do with the family aversion and where he came from in Scotland could mean that he was known as a "Black Scot". This is an expression I heard my grandfather, born in Scotland, use several times when eavesdropping on grown-up conversations. I am still not sure of the exact meaning. I will Google.
    Last edited by Ladkyis; 18-04-2014 at 8:46 AM. Reason: remembered something else
    Sadly, our dear friend Ann (alias Ladkyis) passed away on Thursday, 26th. December, 2019.
    Footprints on the sands of time

  4. #14
    Monty Stubble
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladkyis View Post
    The highland clearances where the landowners found it was more prifitable to have sheep on their land than tenants so they drove the people from their houses and then pulled them down................. the houses not the people. Some of the people went to Canada and America and Australia. A lot went to Northern Ireland and some came south.


    ETA: The age of Mr Gordon might have something to do with the family aversion and where he came from in Scotland could mean that he was known as a "Black Scot". This is an expression I heard my grandfather, born in Scotland, use several times when eavesdropping on grown-up conversations. I am still not sure of the exact meaning. I will Google.
    I thought the Highland Clearances were earlier than the 1870's?

    A further muddying of the waters occurs now as I get a little further into the research. The family story about the black guy and the train could only have happened after Mr Gordon (the Scots') death. He died in 1890 and the Golden Valley Railway was only opened from Pontrilas to Dorstone in 1881. If the story has any credence at all it must have happened between 1890 and and her marriage to Aaron Meredith in 1897. Of course she wasn't in the first flush of youth by this time. Unless of course she had some kind of affair after 1881!

    Perhaps the 'Black Scot' expression has some mileage. I await your research with interest.

  5. #15
    thewideeyedowl
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    I suspect that 'Black Scot' might be used in much the same way as 'Black Irish', i.e. to signify someone with black hair and the darker skin tone that is prevalent in Mediterranean countries. It has been claimed that the 'Black Irish' were descendants of Spanish sailors shipwrecked after the Armada in 1588 (lovely story, but perhaps not quite accurate). It is more likely that 'Black Irish' are descendants of the steady stream of folk trading from the Iberian peninsula from about 500BC. And if they got to Ireland, they probably got to Scotland too.

    Not sure where this gets us, so I'm off to roost now.

    Owl

  6. #16
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NicoUK View Post

    In 1901 Malina Meredith 60 born Peterchurch, wife of Aaron Meredith, a farmer and employer age 58, living at Michaelchurch Escley and a William Morgan 22, boarder - Class: RG13; Piece: 2485; Folio: 65; Page: 5
    I started to look for this William in earlier census to find out if/how he was related to Alexander Morgan and here he is in 1891 but having difficulty finding him in 1881. He is not with Aaron Meredith.
    1891 RG12 Piece 2066 Folio 67 Page 5
    Lower Danrosser(?) farm Michaelchurch Escley
    Aaron Meredith 48 farmer Bryngwyn, Radnorshire
    Mary Morgan 71 Widow Dorstone, Herefordshire
    William Morgan 12 boarder Clodock Herefordshire
    John Howells 26 servant Presteigne, Radnorshire
    Elizabeth J Howard 74 servant Michaelchurch Escley
    Alice E Howard 9 boarder Michaelchurch Escley

    It is said the second lot of Highland Clearances in the 1800 - 1820's were far more savage than the first lot so I thought it may have been Alexander's parents who moved to Herefordshire in that time period but haven't found them yet in England if it was so.

    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  7. #17

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    I have it in my head that a "Black Scot" came from the Black Isle. That area of Scotland that includes Aberdeen. I really should get my 'brane' in gear before engaging my mouth shouldn't I? I have tried to google black scot but I am pants at research - no really, everything I have on my ancestors I have "found" with help from other people on here. I just don't ask the right questions and as for wildcard searches well, no, I won't go there today.

    I think there has to be something closer to home than this so your theory about a possible affair could have substance.

    There were more black people in this country at that time than we realise. My daughter-in-law's grandfather came from Barbuda to Devon and became a lay preacher in South Wales in the 1890s. He married a white woman from Pontypool and this caused quite a stir. I do believe she said he came over with quite a few other men from Antigua and Barbados as well as Barbuda but I have no idea how to research them.
    Sadly, our dear friend Ann (alias Ladkyis) passed away on Thursday, 26th. December, 2019.
    Footprints on the sands of time

  8. #18
    Growing old Disgracefully
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    From Wikipeda - Black Scottish People - Scottish 'Tobacco Lords' played a leading role in the slave trade and by 1817 it was estimated that one third of all slaves in Jamaica were held by these Scots. This role in slavery led to the first significant documented Black population in Scotland, as slave owners brought slaves back to serve as household servants. In some cases, slaves were freed through manumission.

    So it's possible he could have been, lots of info about it just Google "Black Scott"
    Last edited by Sandyhall; 19-04-2014 at 12:17 PM. Reason: to add

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