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  1. #1
    ROY JOHN
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    Default JOSEPH JOHN BRAWDY 1833

    I have hit the proverbial 'brick wall' regarding my great grandfather Joseph JOHN. Born in Brawdy area in 1833. His father was William JOHN a farmer (labourer). Joseph married Martha Mathias in May 1876 and later Mary Ann TAYLOR from Llanstadwell. They lived in Clarence Street Pembroke Dock where Joseph finished as a grocer. He played for Neyland Rovers RFC during 1907 to 1909
    I can find no record of Joseph's birth, apparently in Brawdy.
    Is there anyone out there who has any information, anything that may help will be appreciated.

    Thank you

  2. #2
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    Have you checked non-conformist registers?

    For example there's a Joseph JOHN bap 1834 in Whitchurch (Independent).

    RG4/3920

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.go...s?uri=C2494586

  3. #3
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROY JOHN View Post
    I have hit the proverbial 'brick wall' regarding my great grandfather Joseph JOHN. Born in Brawdy area in 1833. His father was William JOHN a farmer (labourer). Joseph married Martha Mathias in May 1876 and later Mary Ann TAYLOR from Llanstadwell. They lived in Clarence Street Pembroke Dock where Joseph finished as a grocer. He played for Neyland Rovers RFC during 1907 to 1909
    I can find no record of Joseph's birth, apparently in Brawdy.
    Is there anyone out there who has any information, anything that may help will be appreciated.

    Thank you
    Am I misreading something here? Joseph would have been about 74 in 1907.

    There is an entry on familysearch.org

    Joseph John age 66 estimated birth year 1833
    Buried 16 May 1899 At Pembroke Dock, St John, Pembrokeshire, Wales

    The image is available on Findmypast (FMP)

    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  4. #4
    ROY JOHN
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    Default JOSEPH JOHN

    Quote Originally Posted by christanel View Post
    Am I misreading something here? Joseph would have been about 74 in 1907.

    There is an entry on familysearch.org

    Joseph John age 66 estimated birth year 1833
    Buried 16 May 1899 At Pembroke Dock, St John, Pembrokeshire, Wales

    The image is available on Findmypast (FMP)

    Christina
    Thank you Christina,
    I am aware of a Joseph john burial detail. However I am at a loss how this joseph finished in a workhouse as both he and Mary Ann appeared to be comfortably off, in fact Mary Ann had a property in Churchfields Llanstadwell.

    Roy

  5. #5
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    On familysearch.org
    Joseph John
    Born 28 April 1834
    Christened 22 May 1834
    Father - William John
    Mother Jane Griffith
    At Bethel Sardis and Tabernacle Ind. or Cong, St Florence St Issels and St Mary tenby, Pembroke Wales

    This looks like him in 1841 with his parents. Whether he is your man or not?
    HO107 piece 1452 book 2 folio 12 page 15
    Log? Mill? B?
    Wm John 44 Labourer
    Jane John 40
    Isac John 17 Labourer
    Jane John 10
    Thos John 8
    Joseph John 7
    Rebeca John 4
    Mary John 1
    All born in county. There is a Henry John on opposite page with his family and a Griffis (sic) family at the top of the same page. Tenby and Brawdy approx. 30 miles apart.

    Then at Narberth South there is also a Joseph John age 10 with William age 8 in the household of Thomas Evans a carpenter. On the opposite page is a Daniel John age 3 in a Griffiths household.
    HO107 piece 1448 book 19 folio 9 page 9

    Do you have Joseph John in the censuses prior to his marriage? I also see that there is a marriage record on FreeBMD in 1874 with a Joseph John and a Martha Mathias on the same page. Can there be two Joseph Johns and two Martha Mathias in Pembroke?

    Was your Joseph John married previously? Was he a bachelor on the marriage cert?

    Just trying to get my head around it all.

    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  6. #6
    ROY JOHN
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    Default JOSEPH JOHN

    Quote Originally Posted by christanel View Post
    On familysearch.org
    Joseph John
    Born 28 April 1834
    Christened 22 May 1834
    Father - William John
    Mother Jane Griffith
    At Bethel Sardis and Tabernacle Ind. or Cong, St Florence St Issels and St Mary tenby, Pembroke Wales

    This looks like him in 1841 with his parents. Whether he is your man or not?
    HO107 piece 1452 book 2 folio 12 page 15
    Log? Mill? B?
    Wm John 44 Labourer
    Jane John 40
    Isac John 17 Labourer
    Jane John 10
    Thos John 8
    Joseph John 7
    Rebeca John 4
    Mary John 1
    All born in county. There is a Henry John on opposite page with his family and a Griffis (sic) family at the top of the same page. Tenby and Brawdy approx. 30 miles apart.

    Then at Narberth South there is also a Joseph John age 10 with William age 8 in the household of Thomas Evans a carpenter. On the opposite page is a Daniel John age 3 in a Griffiths household.
    HO107 piece 1448 book 19 folio 9 page 9

    Do you have Joseph John in the censuses prior to his marriage? I also see that there is a marriage record on FreeBMD in 1874 with a Joseph John and a Martha Mathias on the same page. Can there be two Joseph Johns and two Martha Mathias in Pembroke?

    Was your Joseph John married previously? Was he a bachelor on the marriage cert?

    Just trying to get my head around it all.

    Christina
    Wow thank you Christina,
    I am aware of the the Tenby link, but the census clearly shows he was from Brawdy and that is quite a long way from Tenby. The marriage certificate for his marriage to Martha showed him as a single man. Martha was a tenant in the house where he was head in Clarence Street Pembroke Dock 1882.

    Thank you for all your help

    Roy

  7. #7
    gasser
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    ...and two Martha Mathias in Pembroke?
    Yes....FreeBMD has these
    Births Mar 1857 Mathias Martha Pembroke 11a 645
    Births Jun 1858 Mathias Martha Pembroke 11a 714

  8. #8
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROY JOHN View Post
    Thank you Christina,
    I am aware of a Joseph john burial detail. However I am at a loss how this joseph finished in a workhouse as both he and Mary Ann appeared to be comfortably off, in fact Mary Ann had a property in Churchfields Llanstadwell.
    Roy
    Hi Roy
    The only Joseph John I have found in a workhouse at the moment is in 1901 RG13; piece 5011 folio 131 page 4. It says he is a coal miner age 66, Single and born St Davids.

    I see your Joseph with Mary Ann, their son Joseph age 6 (is he the one who played for Neyland Rovers?) Mary's mother and Aunt
    1891 RG12 Piece 4529 Folio 106 Page 17

    Mary Ann and Joseph T age 16 in 1901 RG13 piece 5126 folio 5 page 2.

    So Mary Ann is a widow in 1901 and a dress maker so she is not as comfortably off as in 1991 when Joseph was a grocer.

    This could be her husband's death
    Joseph John age 66 estimated birth year 1833
    Buried 16 May 1899 At Pembroke Dock, St John, Pembrokeshire, Wales

    The bloke in the workhouse is not your Joseph.

    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  9. #9
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasser View Post
    Yes....FreeBMD has these
    Births Mar 1857 Mathias Martha Pembroke 11a 645
    Births Jun 1858 Mathias Martha Pembroke 11a 714
    Thanks gasser
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  10. #10
    ROY JOHN
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by christanel View Post
    Hi Roy
    The only Joseph John I have found in a workhouse at the moment is in 1901 RG13; piece 5011 folio 131 page 4. It says he is a coal miner age 66, Single and born St Davids.

    I see your Joseph with Mary Ann, their son Joseph age 6 (is he the one who played for Neyland Rovers?) Mary's mother and Aunt
    1891 RG12 Piece 4529 Folio 106 Page 17

    Mary Ann and Joseph T age 16 in 1901 RG13 piece 5126 folio 5 page 2.

    So Mary Ann is a widow in 1901 and a dress maker so she is not as comfortably off as in 1991 when Joseph was a grocer.

    This could be her husband's death
    Joseph John age 66 estimated birth year 1833
    Buried 16 May 1899 At Pembroke Dock, St John, Pembrokeshire, Wales

    The bloke in the workhouse is not your Joseph.

    Christina
    Hi Christina,
    My grandfather was Joseph Taylor JOHN. His father Joseph was the rugby player.
    How can I thank you enough for all your efforts. I will look into the burial records for the date you have given me. i will let you know what I find out.

    Once again my sincere thanks

    \Roy

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