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  1. #1
    toedwar
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    Default Bateman of Tralee, Kerry.

    I have been searching to find the mother of Elizabeth Bateman, born about 1824 in co. Kerry (most likely Tralee) but have not been able to positively identify her. Here is what I know:

    1. Elizabeth Bateman married Rev. Thomas O'Regan, Sep 1845 at Booterstown, by licence. Her father is named as John Bateman, Esq. The wedding announcement in the Morning Post, London, 30 Sep 1845 describes her as "Elizabeth, daughter of John Bateman Esq. of Oak Park, county Kerry."

    2. Elizabeth was living with her husband, Rev. Thomas O'Regan, at Donington, Shropshire in the 1851, 1861, 1871, 1881 censii of England, with her birth given as about 1824 in Ireland. The 1891 census gives her age as 66, so born about 1825, with birthplace as “O’Kerry, Ireland”. She died 1898 at 1 Clarendon Road, Wallington, Surrey at the home of her son-in-law Guy Percy Edwards, and her daughter Alice Mary.

    3. John Bateman, Esq., formerly of Oak Park, Tralee, Kerry, died 1863 in Croydon, Surrey. In his will he names Rev. Thomas O’Regan as an executor and makes bequests to Elizabeth, wife of Thomas O’Regan; “Jane Bateman of Number 7 Peafield Terrace Merrion Avenue, Black Rock, Dublin, Spinster”; “Anne Bateman, Spinster, who is now or lately was residing at or near Camden in Wilcox County, Alabama in America and who visited my sister in Dublin in or about the year 1861”; “John Bateman who was lately residing at or near Camden aforesaid and who visited my said sister in Dublin in or about the year 1861”. (Note: “my said sister” was Letitia Bateman who married Emanuel Hutchinson Orpen, and who lived at Number 7 Peafield Terrace, Merrion Avenue, Blackrock, Dublin. Letitia died in 1866 at Donington, Salop.).

    4. Annie Isabella Bateman, spinster, married John Pemberton, Esq., widower, at Booterstown on 27 Oct 1863. Rev. Thomas O’Regan was a witness, and his brother, The Venerable John O’Regan, Archdeacon of Kildare, was the officiant. The abode for both groom and bride is given as “Glenville, Sydney Avenue, Blackrock”. The marriage announcement in the Freeman’s Journal, 30 Oct 1863, reads: “Annie Isabella, eldest daughter of the late Captain Bateman of Leslie-park, Croyden, Surrey.”. (Note: John Bateman of Oak Park, Tralee was a Captain in the Kerry militia, commissioned in 1814 at the age of 22.) The 1901 census of Ireland lists an Ann Pemberton, widow, age 65 (so born about 1826), born Tralee living at 18 Northumberland Avenue, Dublin. Ann Pemberton died 24 Feb 1907 at the age of 84 (so born about 1823), at 4 Northumberland Avenue, Dublin.

    5. Jane Bateman, spinster, of 7 Peafield Terrace, Merrion Avenue, Black Rock, Dublin married John Stokes, Esq., widower, of ? Northumberland Avenue, Kingstown, Dublin, at Booterstown on 20 Feb 1865. The marriage announcement appeared in the Kerry Evening Post, 22 Feb 1865, page 2 in which she is described as "youngest daughter of the late Captain John Bateman, J.P., of Croydon, Surrey". The 1901 census of Ireland lists Jane Stokes, widow, aged 72 (so born about 1829), at 6 Northumberland Avenue, Dublin, living with John Stokes, stepson, aged 65. Jane Stokes of 4 Northumberland Avenue, Dublin, died 12 Feb 1907 at age 80 (so born about 1827). [Annie Pemberton and Jane Stokes died 12 days apart in Feb 1907, both at 4 Northumberland Avenue]

    6. John Bateman, Esq. of Oak Park, Tralee was born 26 Nov 1792 at Tralee, son of Rowland Bateman and Arabella Denny. He attended TCD, admitted 10 May 1810 at age 17. As noted above he was commissioned a Captain in the Kerry Militia in 1814, and was a Magistrate for co. Kerry. He was elected to Parliament for Kerry in 1837.
    The only marriage record I have been able to find for him is his marriage to Frances Bland (or Crump Bland), youngest daughter of Nathaniel Bland (or Crump Bland) on 25 Sep 1824 at St. Marylebone, London, by licence, in which he is described as a bachelor (doubtful). I have a copy of the parish register entry. His lineage is described in Burke’s Landed Gentry of Gr. Britain and Ireland and this is the only marriage mentioned in Burke’s and other published genealogies of the Bateman family.

    7. A son, Rowland, was born 16 May 1826 at Oak Park, Tralee and his baptism is in the register of the COI Parish church at Tralee (www.irishgenealogy.ie). This son is included in Burke’s and other genealogies, and is the only child of the marriage of John Bateman and Frances Bland mentioned. He became a Lieutenant in the 64th regiment of foot, and died 1857 at Lucknow, India.

    8. A second son was born 29 Sep 1827 at Hastings (presumably Sussex) but lived only a few hours.

    9. Frances and John were living in Chelsea, Middlesex in the 1851 census and Frances Bateman (Bland) died 1st Qtr 1858 in London.

    10. John Bateman married again to Emma Augusta Cox (nee Harris) on 23 Jul 1861 at Camden, Middlesex. He died 1 Oct 1863 at Leslie Terrace, Leslie Park Road, Croydon, Surrey. His will is dated 25 Sep 1863 and was proved 27 Oct 1863 by Rev. Thomas O’Regan and George Augustus Harrison Capes, the executors.

    11. A manuscript letter written ca. 1920-1930 from Letitia Arabella O’Regan, Elizabeth’s daughter, refers to “mother and her sisters” and that Elizabeth’s father remarried and had a son, Rowland who died at Lucknow.

    What all this indicates is that Annie Isabella, Elizabeth and Jane were daughters of John Bateman, Esq. of Oak Park, Tralee. Annie likely born about 1823, Elizabeth likely about 1824-1825, and Jane likely about 1827-1829. My question is, “Who was their mother?”
    Annie’s birth likely pre-dates the marriage to France Bland and Elizabeth’s birth is debatable if it pre-dates the marriage or not. Jane could have been Frances’ daughter but it is peculiar that no published genealogy makes any mention of the three daughters nor of John, a presumed son, who was a beneficiary in the father’s will. It is also notable that John’s (senior) will does not describe his relationship with the beneficiaries, Anne, Elizabeth, Jane and John. To date, I have not found any baptism records for the three daughters although they supposedly were born in Ireland.

    I have three theories about their mother: 1. She was a first wife of John Bateman, possibly catholic. 2. She was John Bateman’s mistress and they were never married. 3. Frances Bland was the mother with Annie born before they married. (doubtful).

    If anyone has any ideas, suggestions or can help solve this mystery, all help is greatly appreciated!

    (Sorry for the extra long message!)
    Tom

  2. #2
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Hello Tom
    let me say at the start that I am not going to be any help at all. I have read your notes, taken notes, searched many sites and have found nothing new.

    You say this which intrigued me.

    3. Frances Bland was the mother with Annie born before they married. (doubtful).
    Why do you say this?

    Christanel
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  3. #3
    toedwar
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    Default Bateman of Tralee, Kerry

    Hello Christanel,
    Many thanks for responding to my query! I don't think Frances Bland was the mother as there are various little tidbits in the family stories that make me think that Elizabeth had a different mother than the known son, Rowland, but I have nothing definitive. One piece is the manuscript letter referenced in #11.
    11. A manuscript letter written ca. 1920-1930 from Letitia Arabella O’Regan, Elizabeth’s daughter, refers to “mother and her sisters” and that Elizabeth’s father remarried and had a son, Rowland who died at Lucknow.
    The letter actually says; "Later he married again, had a son Rowland who was in the army and was killed at the relief of Lucknow, quite young." This makes me think that John had a first wife, before he married Frances Bland. The complete absence of any reference to a previous marriage, and that he described himself as a bachelor on the parish register when he married Frances, makes me wonder if there was something "unusual" about the first wife, i.e. perhaps she was catholic (he was Church of Ireland), or perhaps they never actually married. This is all speculation however, as I truly do not know for certain. I think I need to find a baptismal record for Annie or Elizabeth to find the answer to my search.

    I did find a reference to a marriage licence for a John Bateman and Frances Lunn in Dublin in 1810, however I am doubtful this is my John Bateman as he would have been only 17 at the time and there is a big gap between the supposed marriage in 1810 and the birth of Annie in about 1823. One wrinkle with this, is that IF this is indeed his first marriage, then Annie and Elizabeth's mother would also be Frances.

    Another possible lead that I found once but cannot put my hands on now, is a baptism of an Elizabeth Bateman, father John, in Naas in 1823 but now I cannot find where I saw this! I don't know if this is the correct family but I would like to see the actual baptism record. I know that the Bateman family had a close connection to Dublin, I believe they had a home in Kingstown/Blackrock area, so the records I need might be there rather than in Kerry.
    Tom

  4. #4
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Hi Tom

    Just some thoughts as they pop in to my head.

    The letter, written by Letitia Arabella, dau of Elizabeth Bateman and Thomas O'Regan, really only indicates what she was probably told by her mother, or Letitia could have been giving her version of events.
    It was written c1920/30 so nearly 100 years after the births of Annie Isabella, Elizabeth and Jane and around 60 years afterthe death of their father John.
    John Bateman's life and career were well documented and had been out in the public domain for many years by this time so the family would not have wanted to sully their g/father's name by giving a different version of events. That is if they knew of a different story. Their father does seem to have provided for them rather well.

    Was John in Ireland 1820 to 1830 or was he travelling between England and Ireland with the army? The girls may have believed they were born in Ireland because that is where they were told they were born. Mind you searching in England using only Annie Isabella and birth 1822 - 1824 only got me one in Lincolnshire and she was the daughter of John Bateman and Sara Grey andher baptism gave her name as Annie Isabella Bateman or Grey which sounds as if the parents weren't married. At least it proves I have been searching

    Some domestics to do.

    Christanel
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  5. #5
    toedwar
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    Hi Christanel,
    Your points are well taken, and I agree the letter from Letitia Arabella was indeed written well after the events and has to be taken with some caution.
    John was a Captain in the Kerry militia, which, as I understand it, was a local militia for maintaining order in the county. I am not aware that he traveled with the militia. However he obviously spent a considerable amount of time in Dublin and in England. As for the 1820-1830 period, I'm not certain of his exact whereabouts. He is listed in Tralee for the 1823 Tithe Applotment books, but that doesn't mean he was living there. I do know that he was elected to parliament for Tralee in 1837 but the election was later overturned, and that he served as a magistrate for Kerry and have seen his name on the assize rolls. He left Oak Park in about 1837 and was living in Chelsea, Middlesex in the 1841 census. I've been focusing on Ireland births as all the census records available for the three girls are consistent with Ireland as their birthplace - but your point is well taken that this may not be correct. Indeed the second son born of Frances Bland was born in Hastings, so England is indeed a possibility.

    I greatly appreciate your help, a second (or third or more) set of eyes looking is wonderful, as things turn up that way!

    Cheers, Tom

  6. #6
    toedwar
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    Another tidbit is that a handwritten "family tree", also from about 1920-1930 and probably contemporaneous with Letitia Arabella's letter, shows the children of John Bateman in order; John, Annie, Elizabeth and Jane. The three girls are in their known birth order, and presumably John was listed first as he was the eldest child; although it could be that he was listed first as a son. IF John was the eldest, then he presumably was born before 1823. Tom.

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