London + Wolverhampton Isaacs' a brick wall

[allan]

My 3rd great grandfather was Lewis Isaacs, a broker. He must have been born circa 1786.
I know his name because his son John Lewis Isaacs declared this when registering his marriage to Hannah Benjamin on 8th Nov 1837 in Birmingham.
I believe Lewis may have been living in 1837 as he was not recorded as deceased.

I found a marriage GSM110/44 1807 [19 Aug] ISAACS, Lewis (Lucas) father Isaac, spouse PYKE, Caroline (Keila) father Lezer Shnek, Privd. Memb

As John Lewis Isaacs was born about 1811, this fits datewise

I also found Leon Lewis Isaacs (born about 1812 or 1813) who married Frances Adams 9th May 1841
He emigrated to Australia with his wife just before the 1841 census and the records show that his father was Lewis Isaacs, a broker, deceased and his mother was Catharine Pike living in London so I can neatly pin him to the couple married 19 Aug 1807.

I can't find a death record for Lewis Isaacs. This might have been between 1837 and 1841. Probably London, but who knows? It could even have been Jamaica...

I don't have other than circumstantial evidence to pin John Lewis to the same parents as Leon's.
Nor can I find a birth record for John Lewis Isaacs or his older brother Joseph Lewis Isaacs born about 1810, or Leon's.

Although I found the grave of one of John Lewis Isaacs' children (Lydia Isaacs 1850-64) in Wolverhampton, I've been unable to find a burial record for him or his wife who died in Wolverhampton on 13 Dec 1868 and 4 Dec 1867 respectively.

Once I can sort out John Lewis Isaacs' parents I can probably make some headway.

Anyone out there with access to a clue or two?

[mikejee]

Not Lewis, but John Lewis Isaacs. I don't know if you have found the directory refs to John Lewis Isaacs in Birmingham.;
1841 (Pigots) 32 Smallbrook St, cloths dealer
1845 ( P.O. direct.) 4 The Bull Ring, clothier
He is not listed in 1849
At this time directory publication dates could be a couple of years after the information was originally recorded.

[phillip]

Allan
I can see on the Australian Newspaper Archives references to Leon Lewis Isaacs including the death of Hannah 3rd daughter of the late Leon Lewis Isaacs and sister of Mrs S de Groen; Mrs W Collins and A and N isaacs - The Sydney Morning Herald Weds 14 July 1897. The Australian Death Index record - Leon L Isaacs 1876 NSW father Lewis. Also, Marriage on Oct 29 at the residence of the bride's brother in lasw 548 George St - eldest son of Mark Collins to Kate youngest daughter of the late Leon Lewis Isaacs of this city- The Sydney Morning Herald Tues 4 Nov 1879.
The archive also has a record regarding the signature in 1874 in Sydney of John Lewis Isaacs - you may want to check out any further records to confirm he is the brother of Leon. Suspect he may have dropped or changed his middle name or used just an initial letter. Can't see any reference in Berger to these lines.
Phillip

[allan]

Not Lewis, but John Lewis Isaacs. I don't know if you have found the directory refs to John Lewis Isaacs in Birmingham.;
1841 (Pigots) 32 Smallbrook St, cloths dealer
1845 ( P.O. direct.) 4 The Bull Ring, clothier
He is not listed in 1849
At this time directory publication dates could be a couple of years after the information was originally recorded.

I found references to provide the following:-
1811 B WHITECHAPEL
1835? COMMERCIAL TRAVELLER, 29 HUTCHINSON STREET, LONDON
1837 MARRIES HANNAH BENJAMIN, BIRMINGHAM
1839 FIRST CHILD DIES AT BIRTH
1841 BIRMINGHAM, TAILOR
1841 LEWIS ISAACS BORN BIRMINGHAM
1846 JULIA ISAACS BORN BIRMINGHAM
1848 ELIJAH ISAACS BORN 27 HUTCHINSON AVENUE, ALDGATE,
1850 LYDIA BORN BIRMINGHAM
1851 BULL RING, BIRMINGHAM, TAILOR
1855 BANKRUPT, NEWTON STREET, BIRMINGHAM
1856 3rd March, he and his wife assaulted
1860 Tuesday 17th Jan, John Lewis has a coat stolen from his shop.
1860 14th April, a coat stolen from his shop door
1861 STEELHOUSE LANE, ASTON, BIRMINGHAM, CLOTHIER
1861 BANKRUPT, BIRMINGHAM
1864 LYDIA ISAACS DIES AGED 14, BILSTON
1867 WIFE, HANNAH DIES AGED 58 WOLVERHAMPTON
1868 JOHN LEWIS ISAACS DIES AGED 57, BILSTON, STAFFS

The 1848 date is odd and I haven't yet figured out why they should trek to London??
I'll add your info, thanks Mikejee
Allan

[allan]

Allan
I can see on the Australian Newspaper Archives references to Leon Lewis Isaacs including the death of Hannah 3rd daughter of the late Leon Lewis Isaacs and sister of Mrs S de Groen; Mrs W Collins and A and N isaacs - The Sydney Morning Herald Weds 14 July 1897. The Australian Death Index record - Leon L Isaacs 1876 NSW father Lewis. Also, Marriage on Oct 29 at the residence of the bride's brother in lasw 548 George St - eldest son of Mark Collins to Kate youngest daughter of the late Leon Lewis Isaacs of this city- The Sydney Morning Herald Tues 4 Nov 1879.
The archive also has a record regarding the signature in 1874 in Sydney of John Lewis Isaacs - you may want to check out any further records to confirm he is the brother of Leon. Suspect he may have dropped or changed his middle name or used just an initial letter. Can't see any reference in Berger to these lines.
Phillip

I have the odd newspaper reference Phillip, but you seem to found a few more.
I picked up the following children:-
Sarah Isaacs 1842-1917 married Samson de Groen ?-1882 in 1862... eleven children 1862-1881
Julia Isaacs 1845-? married Kaufman Charles Lobliner ?-1917 in 1879.. 3 children 1880-1883?
Judah Lewis Isaacs 1846-1857
Kitty Isaacs 1850-?

Also a Rosetta Moses 1816- married Henry Phillips 1848
She was possibly the daughter of Simon Moses and Sarah Polack and she travelled to Sydney under the protection of Leon according to the immigration documents.

Linking Leon to John Lewis Isaacs is the missing link so your reference to the 1874 signature is interesting.
I hadn't found the reference to Kate/Mark Collins, presumably Kitty; and who is Hannah? Maybe Kitty was Catherine or Kate Hannah?
This is interesting as it reflects Leon's mother's name. Hannah was John Lewis' wife's name (Hannah Benjamin daughter of Asher Benjamin).
Can this be extra circumstantial evidence?
Allan

[phillip]

Allan- we have looked at the Pyke/Isaacs data in previous posts but as a recap for other researchers John Lewis Isaacs 1812-1868 plus data on his family including brother Joseph and parents Lewis and Caroline appear on Cemetery Scribes site ID 10675. Jeffrey Maynard has Lewis and Caroline on his family tree website ( I assume he is the same Maynard who produced the excellent data on Anglo Jewish Miscellanies website) but limited data on the lines. The Australian 1874 record posts dates the death of John Lewis Isaacs in 1868 so who is the 1874 person and is he relevant to Leon? Just wondering if the Groen were originally Groenwoud from Holland as were the Pyke.
Phillip

[phillip]

Allan- filling in some data- Certificate of Naturalisation NSW -2 June 1879- Charles LOBLINER -tobacconist-native of Prussia arrived NSW in 1855. Age 46- born abt 1833- the name of the ship he arrived on is on the certificate.
Phillip

[allan]

Allan- we have looked at the Pyke/Isaacs data in previous posts but as a recap for other researchers John Lewis Isaacs 1812-1868 plus data on his family including brother Joseph and parents Lewis and Caroline appear on Cemetery Scribes site ID 10675. Jeffrey Maynard has Lewis and Caroline on his family tree website ( I assume he is the same Maynard who produced the excellent data on Anglo Jewish Miscellanies website) but limited data on the lines. The Australian 1874 record posts dates the death of John Lewis Isaacs in 1868 so who is the 1874 person and is he relevant to Leon? Just wondering if the Groen were originally Groenwoud from Holland as were the Pyke.
Phillip

OK Phillip
I recall the previous posts. Lots of data since then, but still no link and still a brick wall.
That "John Lewis Isaacs" looks like a typo as the same chap is referred to by three names in the same article.
I've been searching the Sydney newspapers all morning and filling in missing dates.
I noticed that marriages sometimes took place at a neighbour's house, 597 George St South, that of John Isaacs. I believe he might have been the brother of Sir Isaac Isaacs the Gov Gen. I guess this John Isaacs might have been a friend (with a big house) rather than a relative.
Another odd link is a cemetery record of Rosetta (Rosa) Isaacs, wife of John. Annotated with Sarah de Groen (Leon Isaacs' daughter).
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg...GRid=88115616&

Rosetta (Rosa) Moses was the girl that Leon escorted to Sydney in 1841. Could she have married a John Isaacs?

Samson de Groen m 29 Jan 1862, d 1882 was son of Joseph de Groen and Brunetta of Rotterdam.
Allan

[phillip]

Allan- For other researchers who may be able to assist- Rookwood Jewish Cemetery - Leon Lewis Issacs age 66 death 1 March 1876 ( there is no reference to his father and no photograph as yet). There are other Isaacs buried at the cemetery so worth cross checking all data. There are also on Ancestry.Com a range of records relating to Samson de Groen- same applies to Charles Lobliner and their names appear also on the Australian Newspaper Archives website.

Phillip

[phillip]

Allan- again a reminder- did you see the British Jewry Archive messages from Debbie Bozkurt - my distant Jacobs cousin- looking for info on Lewis/Leon/de Groen- "Isaacs family and De Groen family"-16 Nov 2008.
Phillip