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Thread: TURNER - Birr

  1. #11
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    I found the birth on FMP simply typed in his name and approx DOB. There is no other info on the birth reg other than what I sent.

  2. #12
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    I think you had better give us the references and details for the 1881 and 1891 censuses you have for William and Alice because I keep coming back to the one I already have.

  3. #13
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    This is the 1891 census reference for a Charles Turner, priest age 27 born Ireland. So born 1864.
    RG12 Piece 350 Folio 96 Page 47

  4. #14
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    Christanel,

    Below is the info you requested - but it does not help much with the Irish ancestry.

    Bill.

    William Henry TURNER married Alice MASTERS on 2nd April 1873 at St. Jude's, Southwark, Surrey (now London). The witnesses were Elias & Elizabeth DUNN. Bride & groom were both shown as living at 11 London Road, Southwark. The groom's father is Henry TURNER a Head Cellarman. The groom's age was 19 and the bride 18. They were young to be married. As far as I have been able to trace their first child was born in August 1875 (my grandmother, Alice).

  5. #15
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by christanel View Post
    Could this be him in 1881
    RG11 Piece 599 Folio 63 Page 9
    23 Blunel Street Lambeth
    William H. Turner 26 Carpenter and joiner King's Co Ireland
    Alice Turner 25
    Alice Turner 5
    William Turner 3
    Alice and children all born Lambeth Surrey

    1871 RG10 Piece 667 Folio 4 Page 1
    36 Park Street Lambeth
    Henry Turner 50 Cellar man Marylebone
    Mary Turner 36 County Tipperary ireland
    William Turner 16 Carpenter and joiner King's county
    John Turner 14 assisting his father King's county
    George Turner 12 Tipperary
    Charles Turner 9 Lambeth
    Henry Turner 3 Lambeth
    Mary Ann Turnerb 9 Months Lambeth
    Ann Rogers 23 single, wife's sister unemployed servant Tipperary
    Hello Bill

    These two census records I gave earlier match the information you have given from Henry and Alice's marriage cert. (by the way what was William's occupation on that?)

    (In your post #4 you say " They had three children Alice Mary (b.1875), William Henry (b.1878), Alice (my grandmother b.1886). Then in your latest post you say your grandmother was born 1875. Is it possible the first Alice Mary born 1875 died and they named the next dau born 1886 Alice? It was quite a common practice to give a child the same name as a sibling that had died earlier.) Ignore this in brackets, see next post

    One of the other helping on here may come along and tell me if I am on the right track.

    Christanel

  6. #16
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    This is the same family in 1891
    RG12 Piece 1078 Folio 36 Page 16
    Mayes Road 1 Glynfield Villas Tottenham
    William H Turner 36 carpenter and joiner
    Alice Turner 36
    William Turner 13
    Anne Turner 5
    Alice M Turner 15

    So the names of the daughters is sorted. Alice Mary born c1875 (possibly your grandmother) and Anne born 1886.

    In your post #4 you say " 1873 he lived at 11 London Road, Southwark; in 1875 at 12 Aukland Street, Lambeth; in 1881 23 Brunel Street, Lambeth; in 1891 until death in 1944 at Mayes Road Wood Green. I have the census data for 1881 onwards. So I have the right family in 1891?

    I do think we have found the correct family for your William Henry Turner. His mother was Irish but his father was born in London. William Henry was born in Ireland because his father was in the army there. So you will only be looking for his mother's Irish ancestry, which makes it a little easier.

    Christanel

  7. #17
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    Christanel,

    First an apology. In post #4 I made a mistake. Where I said..........
    “In 1873 he married Alice Masters – I have the marriage certificate. They had three children Alice Mary (b.1875), William Henry (b.1878), Alice (my grandmother b.1886).”
    ........I should have said
    “In 1873 he married Alice Masters – I have the marriage certificate. They had three children Alice Mary (my grandmother b.1875), William Henry (b.1878), Anne ( b.1886).”

    1881 RG11 Piece 599 Folio 63 Page 9 IS my great grandparents, my grandmother and her brother and sister.

    What is new to me, and for which I thank you, is 1871 RG10 Piece 667 Folio 4 Page 1 36 Park Street Lambeth. This seems to be a perfect fit showing my great grandfather at the age of 16 with his parents and siblings. In my first post I mentioned Charles Turner who became a Catholic priest. I was never sure of his relationship to my great grandfather but now I see that they were possibly brothers because the age fits (Rev Charles James Turner was born 16/01/1862 – I know a great deal about his life as a priest).

    You might be interested to know that I have a carpenter’s saw and spirit level both marked with the name “C.Turner” handed down through the family. These may have been among the tools Charles no longer needed when he became a priest. This side of my family have all been Catholic. I suspect William Henry and Alice upset the family when they married in the Church of England.

    You asked for the occupation of William on the marriage certificate – it also shows him as a carpenter. His son (my great Uncle Will) William Henry (junior) (b. 1878, died 14/1/52) also a carpenter – I used to visit him in his workshop over 60 years ago at the Charing Cross Station railway hotel in London where he was employed. At the back of my mind I have the thought that his father was there before him also.

    I am grateful to you for unlocking some more of the research for me and starting me off again down some further paths.

    Bill

  8. #18
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Hello Bill
    My husband would be so envious of you having the old tools belonging to Charles. OH collects and restores old carpenter's tools.

    I think Charles, the priest, is the brother of William Henry.

    Looking at the 1871 census tells us that the family returned to London from Ireland between the birth of George in 1859 and the birth of Charles in 1862. There won't be a record of a sea voyage for them between ireland and England so if they can't be found in the 1861 census in London then it may be presumed they arrived 1861/62.

    To help you with Mary's family, it is lucky that her sister was with them in 1871 so Mary's maiden surname was Rogers, born in Tipperary.
    You have a little more information than some of us who are struggling with only having Ireland as place of birth and no clue as to maiden names.

    Oh and there is a 6 year gap between the birth of Charles and that of Henry. I wonder if there was another child/children who died in infancy? Just a thought.

    Good luck with the search and if you get stuck you can always come back here to see if we can help further.

    Christanel

  9. #19
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    Christanel,

    Genealogy is so much more interesting when you have more than just names and dates. In the pictures attached there is one of me with my great grandfather, William Henry Turner (senior), taken in about 1934 at Mayes Road. He would then have been a little younger than I am now. The other shows him with his son William Henry (junior) and daughter Anne. He could never have imagined that seventy years after his death instant messages would cross the world talking about him.

    Again I am very grateful to you for your help and interest.

    Bill






  10. #20
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    Oops,
    the picture is of William Henry TURNER with his wife and daughter
    Bill

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