1841 Census Lancashire/Yorkshire

[gorwyn]

Hi All

Thanks you to you all for trying to make some sense out of all this.
Here is a copy of the 1851 census where Thomas is living with Blakey and Betty Hartley.
The Hartley's must have meant a lot to Thomas as Hartley was used a number of times as a Christian name.
I just hope someone can break the cycle of the brickwall.
thanks again
Gorwyn

[gorwyn]

Sorry forgot the census.
Census: 1851 Census:
Windy Bank,Colne Lancashire
Blakey Hartley, Head,age 65 Rag Dealer, b. Colne, Lancashire Betty Hartley, Wife age 62b. Colne, Lancashire
Thomas Abbott, Son age 22 Tailor,b. Hepponstall, Yorkshire
H0107/2254 Burnley Colne Folio: 383
Page: 23

[geneius]

So what is the relationship between Thomas and the Hartleys...Maybe they took him after the death of his parents..?But he wasnt using Hartley yet he names Blackey as his father?

There maybe NO relationship!

On the 1851 census Thomas is desc as Un married and a Tailor, could he have been serving his apprenticeship with Blakey HARTLEY?

[christanel]

Just going back over what I found with the baptisms of Thomas and Olive, Olive was baptised in Burnley even though the parents address, on the original image, was Hunslett Fold, Leeds Yorkshire. So Joseph and Alice went to live in Yorkshire not long after their marriage. I know that boundaries could be flexible but did Hunslett move between Lancs and Yorks? Should we be looking in Yorkshire for the deaths of Joseph and Alice?
I am going to take a look at a map so I can get a better idea just how the places relate to each other.

Hi geneius,
Blakey was a rag trader in 1851 and I was looking at the idea of Thomas being his apprentice but to a rag trader? Unless Thomas was elevating his occupation?
I can understand Thomas giving his father as Blakey if he had looked after him on the possible death of his father. My dad was taken in by a family in 1911 but from the age of 14 reverted to his registered birth surname despite having a loving relationship with his adoptive parents, as we all did.
Christanel

[gorwyn]

The wife of Thomas, Rachel Atkinson, has been described as a Tailor as was her Father, I tend to incline towards Thomas being the apprentice of Thomas Atkinson, possibly this is where he met Rachel.
Does anyone know if there is s list of apprentices for the period around 1843-1848?
Thanks again all for your efforts, I feel more confident now of getting a result eventually with your help.

[valg]

There maybe NO relationship!

On the 1851 census Thomas is desc as Un married and a Tailor, could he have been serving his apprenticeship with Blakey HARTLEY?

I understand that but my issue really is that Thomas used his own name not Hartley so he would have prob known a little about his father..he obviously knew Blackey wasn't his father .. Even if Blackey was a father figure to him I can't understand why he would put him on his marriage certificate as his father...really need to find him in 1841.. Or at least find out the fate of his parents to help make a little sense out of it.. If Olive was deceased young and his parents died soon after his birth he may have been placed into care and adopted later .. But then there is the issue of why he wouldn't have been on census under the Hartleys name... This is a real teaser..

[valg]

Yes you are right..he doesnt appear to be with them in 1841 although I am having a little trouble sorting out the Blackey Hartleys in 1841..who would have thought there would be more than one with that name! The one I looked at had the Hargreaves living with him..cant seem to find one with him and Betty together.It is annoying me that he would name Blackey as his father...why ???? If they adopted him it would be usual for him to be listed on census as Hartley maybe he just concidered him as the only father he had known and so hense the marriage entry..

There is a burial for a Joseph Abbott aged 0 in Blackburn 25 May 1830...cant find a baptism to match..could this have been another child for Joseph and Alice? Could Alice have died in childbirth??
Looking at OPC but no parents listed for this Joseph he was 6 mths old..Buried St Mary the Virgin Blackburn.

Takes a while for things to click in my memory but when I was searching for Blackey in 1841 I put my best bet on the one living with the Hargreaves just recapped and realised I wrote previously that one of he witnesses at Blackey and Betty's wedding was a Hargreaves.. May have no bearing whatsoever on Thomas but just something to look at.

[gorwyn]

Thanks for the message Val, certainly somewhere else to look and who knows??
Thomas has to be somewhere in 1841 even if his parents are dead by this time.
Thanks again. gorwyn

[christanel]

Thomas may have kept the surname Abbott being one of those people who thought that it was illegal to use another name (although thousands didn't.)
If Blakey and his family did take Thomas in from a young age it just may not have been a big deal about which surname he used. My dad used his 'adoptive' families surname until aged 14 when he needed a birth cert for his employer to be so went back to using his birth parents surname. (They were both still alive) Tis was well before official adoption procedures were introduced in 1927.

Another thought is that Alice and Olive may have died, Joseph took off, Blakey looked after him and Thomas put Blakey down as his father as a gesture of gratitude. Of course it is possible that Blakey may have been his father because there is a 9 year age gap between Olive and Thomas' birth. Wonder if there are any more children born to Joseph and Alice 1820 - 1829?

Just a few thoughts which don't bring any conclusions.

Christanel

[christanel]

Another coincidence
1861 census RG 9 Piece 3184 Folio 66 Page 36
Thomas, wife Rachel, children Blakey 8, Broughton 5 and Matilda 3. Rachel and children born Barnoldswick Lancashire.
Either in the same house or next door is an Elias Broughton, 24 stonemason born Barnoldswick which is approx. 5 miles from Colne.

In the 1861 census it is recorded as being in Yorkshire next to their names. Maps now have it in Lancashire.