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  1. #1
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    Default Caroline Mcguiness

    I have been searching for Caroline for ages and have recently discovered a Caroline born to Ellen M Cox in Carcoar in 1875. Ellen married Patrick Mcguiness in 1878 and had several more children. I'm hoping this is 'my' Caroline
    Caroline Mcguiness married Abraham Jebbett in Durban Sth Africa in 1903. They were both single on the marriage certificate. It gave no other information .
    There was Mrs A Jebbett sailing from Cape Town on the GEELONG arriving Sydney in 1907
    Abraham may have been abroad at this time. He returned from California in 1910 to Leicester, his birthplace
    Abraham died in Leicester UK 21 March 1910.

    The other strnge discovert was that i found 5 births for a Caroline Jebbett, no father named. Children were
    27719/1890 Sydney F M
    26240/1894 Ernest F
    35503/1895 Walter F
    All born Parkes
    2435/1897 Bertha R b Condobolin d 947/1897
    17066/1898 Ruby M M b Waterloo.
    It seems impossible that my Caroline could be this mother but you never know.

    I have a copy of the Will of Abraham mentioning Caroline. The last sighting I have is an entry in the Sydney Morning Herald in memory of her husband Abraham( Jim) who died in Leicester 27 March 1910, dated 1912

    So where is she?
    Are these her children?
    If so where were they?

    I have a copy of military records for Sydney Patrick Mcguiness whose sister is given as Mrs Jebbett both of Nimoi St Lithgow in 1914. On a differently dated form i e 1918 Sydney still with the Nimoi St address has an Emily Preston named as a sister, no mention of mrs Jebbett .

    Any theories very welcome. I'd love to find her.
    Last edited by perseus; 06-07-2013 at 3:44 PM. Reason: wrong info

  2. #2
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    You say "There was Mrs A Jebbett sailing from Cape Town on the GEELONG arriving Sydney in 1907
    Abraham may have been abroad at this time. He returned from California in 1910 to Leicester, his birthplace
    New York, Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
    Abraham Jebbett
    Arrived 13 Aug 1907
    Port of arrival - New York, New York
    Age 42 Born c 1865
    Born Leicester England
    Nationality - English
    Port of departure - Glasgow, Scotland
    Ship - Astoria

    Thought I would put this one out there too.

    Newark, New Jersey Directory, 1890-91
    Caroline Jebert, Widow Theodore
    Location 2 - 159 Mulberry
    Year: 1891
    City - Newark
    State - NJ

    Do you have this?
    Queensland, Australia, Passenger Lists, 1848-1912
    Name - Abraham Jebbett
    Age - 18, Born c1865
    Ship Name - Rearenscrag
    Departed Plymouth, England
    Arrived - Rockhampton
    Arrival Date - 18 Apr 1883

    Christanel

  3. #3
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    There is also a Memoriam notice on Trove for 1915. I note that she calls herself Carrie in both notices and Abraham is commonly known as Jim.

    Sidney F died 1928

    Ruby M M Macguinness
    Death - 1899 New South Wales
    Mother - Caroline
    Registered - 1899
    Waterloo, New South Wales
    Registration number - 3707

    Bertha Macguiness
    Death 1897
    Mother - Caroline
    Registered 1897
    Condobolin, New South Wales
    Registration number - 947

    Doesn't explain where the other children were whilst their mother was travelling.

    Christanel

  4. #4
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    There are 3 births to Patrick McGuiness and EllenCox
    Emma 1881, Lancelot J 1893, Clarence F 1899.

    Marriage
    9903/1901 Ernest H Preston to Emmeline McGuiness Parkes Reg district

    I wonder if this is the Emily, sister, in 1918 at the Nimoi Street address.

    Still no sighting of Caroline

  5. #5
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    Hi Christanel

    Thanks so much for all the information.
    I have Abraham's crossing to Australia in 1883 and his passage to USA in 1907.
    1907 was when Caroline returned to Australia from Sth Africa!

    I haven't found passges from Australia to Sth Africa for either of them.

    I hadn't seen the in memoriam in 1915, so she was presumably in Australia then. Thanks for that.

    The various births are a bit of a conundrim. I searched the Australian bmd records and came up with some the same as you and others you didn't have, perhaps a different Patrick & Ellen Mcguiness???
    These are what I found
    William H b Parkes 13289/1879 d Parkes 6649/1880
    William A b Parkes 19511/1885
    Amelia M b Parkes 20612/1889
    Sidney P b Parkes 20875/1891
    Lancelot J b Parkes ?? d Parkes 10460/1894
    Iolene M b Parkes 15707/1895 d Parkes 2825/1909 Eileen M on death record?
    Ruby R b Parkes 14911/1899

    Didn't find Emma 1881 or Clarence 1899.
    So where does that leave me. Are there 2 Patrick & Ellen Mcguiness? I think I did come across a Ellen M Ryde who married a Patrick Mcguiness but need to see if I saved this info.

    The marriage of Emmeline & Ernest Preston in 1901. Unless this was Emma then it can't be th same family. I had thought it was Amelia but she would not have been old enough to marry in 1901.
    However Sidney Patrick Mcguiness had 2 sisters living at Nimoi St in 1914 Mrs Jebbett & 1918 Mrs Emily Preston respectively.

    If Ellen M Cox had not had a daughter Caroline and then married a Patrick Mcguiness I may have discounted some of my discoveries.

    So now where does Emily fit?

    I have searched in what records I can find on the net but it is basic, though better that than none.

    As to Caroline's children?????
    Could this be 'my' Caroline?
    She did rather overdo the children with no named father!
    And as you say what happened to them. I had the death for Bertha but not Ruby, and for William H.

    The death you had for Sidney F in 1928 ...I had thought it was Sidney P, brother of Caroline. Did it not have an initial or did I overlook that. Since there are no ages given it's a bit of a lottery trying to piece things together.

    Abraham Jebbett was the 2nd son of my ggrandad's sister Sarah Jane.
    His sister Mary Maria aged 18 followed him to Australia and married William Donaldson Hall who travelled on the same voyage as Abraham. I assumed actually with him. Managed to find quite a lot about Mary. Got her marriage & death certificates to confirm parents etc.

    I could send for a certifcate for Caroline but which one. If I had a death that would be a good one to get, but no sign of her. Did she marry again. emigrate. Who knows? If I sent for a certificate would it be best to get her birth or that of one of the children? Which might give the best information for me?

    However I have just learned a bit more about her so keep my fingers crossed. I haven't revisied her for a few years as I thought I'd reached a dead end.

    I really appreciate you responding to my query. It would be wonderful if you could find out more.

  6. #6
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    Just had a quick look at my notes

    Passage for Abraham 16 July 1898 on 'SCOT' from Southampton to Cape Natale.

    Arrival 6 June 1907 Mr A Jebbett Southampton from Cape Natale on 'GERMAN'

    8 August 1907 Glasgow to USA destination San Francisco on 'ASTORIA'

  7. #7
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    These are all children of an Albert and Ellen McGuiness all born at Parkes. I am posting them because names may double up with Patrick and Ellen and or Caroline in other records.
    5577/1895 Clarence H
    6005/1897 Mary E
    15750/1901 ARTHUR T
    15028/1903 Harold H
    25547/1904 Kenneth J
    33557/1899 Elesia
    17443/1908 male deceased

    Pondering on which certificates to buy I was wondering whether it would help by buying the birth cert for Iolene M 1895/15707 dau of Patrick and Ellen and also that of Walter F 1895/35503 son of Caroline. These two are the same birth year and same reg district and could just have some details such as address that would link the two? I chose these two because Walter is the last of Caroline's children to be registered at Parkes.

    Deaths of children of Patrick and Ellen.
    6649/1880 William H Parkes
    15299/1881 Emma Parkes
    10460/1894 Lancelot J Parkes
    15347/1898 Ruby R Parkes
    33520/1899 Clarence F Parkes
    2815/1909 Eilene M Parkes
    2611/1913 William A Lithgow
    4135/1928 Sidney P M Ryde

    Of all Patrick and Ellen's children it appears only Amelia M and Sidney P survived later than 1913.

    On Eilene and Sidney's registrations the parents are Patrick J and Ellen M - only time I have seen middle initials.

    So Emma can't be the one who married a Preston and was living at Nimoi Street and Amelia would be too young to be the Emeline who married Ernest Preston in Parkes in 1901

  8. #8
    lawsue
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    Is it possible that Emmaline, Emma and Emily are one and the same?

  9. #9
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Hello lawsue and thanks for your input because my eyes are starting to role.

    At first I thought, like you, that Emma, Emmaline and Emily could be one and the same but Patrick and Ellen's dau Emma appears to have died in 1881

    15299/1881 Emma McGuinness reg dist Parkes

    Searching on NSW BMD's different records come up with different spelling of McGuinness. So can use Mac/Mc/Guiness/Guinness. Some records come up for both spellings, others don't.

    I wonder who Emmaline's parents are then? Can't see a birth for an Emmaline.

    Christanel

  10. #10
    lawsue
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    On Military Records it seems as if Sydney has had his application for reenlistment in 1918 completed by another. Emily and Emmaline to me sound similar when spoken. Also an EMMA Preston death registration in 1961 Ryde. Parents Patrick and Ellen.

    Sue

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