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Thread: Nant Cornwall

  1. #1
    Minerva
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    Default Nant Cornwall

    I am curious about how this Denbighshire farm/village got its name.

    While tracing my ancestors, I discovered that I come from a mining line of Moses' ROBERTS/ROBARTS in St Agnes, Cornwall. As N Wales is also a mining area, and the Moses ROBERTS name was also prevalent around Nant Cornwall, I am curious to find out if there is any connection.

    The earliest record I have found in St Agnes is a Moses ROBERTS, christened 02 AUG 1696. The earliest in N Wales is abt. 1662 Llansannan, Denbigh, Wales, m Elizabeth. There are also Moses ROBERTS' in Flintshire nearby.

    I would very much appreciate any information that can be supplied.

  2. #2
    MarkJ
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    Default

    If it is of any help, Nant is the older version of the Cornish word Nans, which means valley or dale. Certainly around that period, the use of Nant would be normal I expect. But odd that they used Nant but not the Cornish word for Cornwall....

    Oll an gwella!

    Mark

  3. #3
    Brick wall demolition expert!
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    Nant is Welsh for brook or stream, and can also be used to describe a gorge or similar.

    There are lots of similarities in the various celtic languages.

  4. #4
    MarkJ
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    Default

    Sounds like they have a similar root Megan. But of course, Cornish and Welsh are derived from the same language (along with Breton).

  5. #5
    Minerva
    Guest

    Default What is the Cornish connection?

    Thank you, Mark and Megan.

    Actually, I wasn't looking for a translation, however, it does raise some interesting points.

    I take it that your sign-off, Mark, was Cornish? I don't speak it but know that Cornish, Breton and Gaelic are from the same root.

    I live in Wales (not a Welsh speaker, but some of my children were educated through that medium).

    I am intrigued that a Welsh farm/village/area is named after Cornwall, from way back. Why Cornwall?
    Why is the name part Welsh and part English?
    Why is the name not in Cornish?
    Was it named by a farm owner who was born in Cornwall?
    Or was the area populated by incoming Cornish miners?
    Is my ancestor connected to the area and/or the Moses ROBERTS' from/around Nant Cornwall?

    I was hoping that a genealogist from N Wales might be able to answer some/all of these questions.
    Last edited by Minerva; 28-02-2013 at 5:30 PM. Reason: Format

  6. #6
    MarkJ
    Guest

    Default

    Yes, "oll an gwella" means "all the best" in Cornish.
    Technically (ramble time!) Cornish, Welsh and Breton are the Brythonic Celtic languages and Irish, Scots and Manx are the Goidelic languages. Although all have the same origins, there is much more difference between the Brythonic and Goidelic types. I can understand much of Welsh and almost all Breton, but little of the Goidelic ones.

    When my daughter was at Cardiff Uni, I really enjoyed visiting and reading the Welsh around the place. Many of the words are the same or similar and I was able to read most of the stuff I saw.

    Megan suggests the Nant is Welsh, but since the basic meaning is similar for both, I would just assume that it means either valley or stream depending on which of our languages it is in

    As a general comment, Cornish miners are found all over the world (there is a saying that you will find a Cornishman at the bottom of any deep hole).

    It will be interesting to discover the answer to the name of the farm!

  7. #7

    Default

    There is most probably a local history group for the area that contains Nant Cornwall, why not contact them and ask. If they don't know the answer it might just spur a member into starting to research and you never know what may come from that.
    I would have to ask. I am struggling not to go and ask myself even though I only looked at the thread because it said Cornwall in the Denbighshire forum.... curiosity eh?
    Sadly, our dear friend Ann (alias Ladkyis) passed away on Thursday, 26th. December, 2019.
    Footprints on the sands of time

  8. #8

    Default

    Within spitting distances of each other on the 1880 OS Denbighshire map are Nant Cornwal, Cornwal-Ganol, Cornwal Uchaf and Cornwal Isaf. Are they all Roberts linked?

    The 16 May 1885 edition of "Baner ac Amserau Cymru" published a poem under the heading -
    LLINELLAU ADGOF Am Richard plentyn Mr a Mrs Roberts, Nant Cornwall, Llansannan
    It began -
    "Gadewch i blant bychain ddyfod
    Ataf fi" medd Iesu gwiw

    LINES OF REMEBRANCE for Richard child of Mr and Mrs Roberts, Nant Cornwall, Llansannan
    "Suffer/let little children to come unto me" said Jesus

    FreeBMD has the death of Richard William Roberts, age 14, Jun 1884, St Asaph, 11b 236

    The North Wales Chronicle, 13 Feb 1886 "DEATHS - on the 3rd inst, aged 9 years, W T Roberts, Nant Cornwal, Llanfairtalhaiarn"

    FreeBMD hads the death of William Thomas Roberts, age 9, Mar 1886, St Asaph, 11b 258

  9. #9

    Default

    Chester Chronicle Friday 6 July 1798
    VOLUNTARY CONTRIBUTIONS
    The Parish of Llanfair-Talhaiarn, in the County of Denbighshire, in aid of Government

    Amongst those listed
    Thomas Jones, Cornwal, 0 0 9d

  10. #10
    Minerva
    Guest

    Default

    I would have to ask. I am struggling not to go and ask myself even though I only looked at the thread because it said Cornwall in the Denbighshire forum.... curiosity eh?

    THAT's what makes us genealogists - the irresistible urge to find the key... ours, or in extremis, someone else's will do!

    ps Lurve your sig!

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