Pablo FANQUE - son or nephew?

[spison]

There is so much to take in here and I'm having trouble assimilating all of the connections. I did hunt for references that would connect William Banham as 'Young' or 'Master' Fanque but never found a reference where the names were used together in the English papers - only the Australian ones. In the Australian papers only one reference has so far been found linking William's son, John, with that performance name and that was around the time when William Banham was on his death bed and John ran away from home. The baptism of Mary Elizabeth Darby BANHAM on 24/02/1828 with the mother as Maria BANHAM is a wonderful find but I need to be able to concentrate better to see if I am able to help in any way and life is hectic at present - house guests who TALK - how dare they!

Over to you! (I will keep an eagle eye out for future posts as I now note that I received no notification for this thread and should have.)

Jane

[greenebee]

Hi all. I apologize for this but I am re-posting an edited and much clearer version of my post from above. I edited immediately after I wrote it but because I delayed more than 15 minutes, it timed out, and required I contact the Administrator. I haven't heard anything back. I am posting this re-write because it better summarizes my analysis and includes better cites. Please accept this indulgence.

I will also use this new message to clarify some information. sparklingsilver had reported that Jane Banham was buried alongside Pablo Fanque's wife, Susannah Darby. I think she meant that Fanque's infant daughter with his second wife, Elizabeth Corker, was buried alongside Susannah--which indeed is strange since that daughter had no connection to Fanque's first wife. Jane Banham, according to my research, is buried in Armley. Her gravesite is listed at "Find a Grave."

Here is the repost:

sparklingsilver: Thanks for your feedback and for all you've added to this research. Maybe we'll catch up in Manchester; I hope to be there around the same time. I'm interested to hear more about what connects Lionel Pablo to Greville/Granville. There is strong evidence that Lionel Pablo disappears around 1848, and some evidence that he may be the person Fanque posted the "wanted" advertisement for, warning people not to hire him (though that could have been Banham, too). Lionel Pablo's later claim that he left home at 12, combined with the theory that he was Pablo Fanque Junior on the run from his father, suggests a motive for changing his name. What happened between this time and his documented re-emergence in Milnsbridge, Bradford in 1891 as "Lionel Pablo," remains a mystery to me. If there was a Lionel Greville performing in the circus in 1871, that raises some possibility he's Lionel Pablo, but I suppose all we have that connects the two men is the circus profession and the common first name. I suppose there could be other Lionels in the circus. Is there any more direct evidence? Then Lionel Granville is possibly the same person, but again the connections would appear to be a common first name, common racial background with Lionel Pablo, and a surname similar to Greville. Do we have anything that connects Granville to the circus? How do connect him to Greville, besides the common name?

[update from greenebee: I have discovered that Bruce Moorhouse, a descendant of Pablo Fanque, also lists Lionel Pablo on his WorldConnect family tree, as "Greville" as well. I'm not sure what his source was to conclude Greville and Lionel Pablo are one in the same either. His kids, however, were given the name Pablo, according to Moorhouse. I also note this family tree records Lionel Pablo as being born around 1846.]

As for Maria Banham and her daughter Mary Elizabeth Darby Banham, born in Norwich in 1828, I think the location, birthdate, and the Darby and Banham surnames appearing together in the entry definitely suggests Maria Banham is connected to Pablo Fanque's family. Billy Banham's connection to Pablo Fanque is well documented by contemporaneous accounts. For another Banham, in same location as the Darbys, to have named her inserted "Darby" in her "illegitimate" child's name does not seem a coincidence.

It would not have occurred to me, though, that Pablo's father William Darby might be the father of Mary Elizabeth Darby Banham. If still alive, William Darby Sr., would be quite old: he had a child in 1796 (who died a year later). To father a child in 1828 would be 32 years later. Possible. What seems more likely is that Pablo Fanque, born in 1810, and the virile age of 18 is the father. Just the same, if others called Billy Banham, Fanque's nephew, it's possible Fanque did in fact have a brother who fathered children with a Banham.

What's interesting is that Billy Banham seems to have been with Pablo from early on. Perhaps he adopted his brohter's child?

Does anyone know when Banham first appears by the name "Banham" in the Pablo Fanque circus history? He's definitely there, by name, in 1850 in Ireland, but what about before? I believe somone in this forum cited references to "Master Pablo" and "Master Pablo Fanque" as early as January 1837 in the Freeman's Journal, Dublin, and the Northern Star and Leeds Advertiser in June 1838 (where his race is revealed in the description, "Gem of Africa"), but does the name BANHAM appear in those early advertisements?

Nevertheless, I believe we have strong evidence to infer that the advertisements of "Master Pablo" and the like, refer to Banham: the age matches the Banham who is performing with him in 1850 and whose age and marriage are documented as 24 in 1854; it also appears to be Banham who advertised his availability for engagements as "Pablo Fanque Jun" in 1854, where he provides the contact name as E Couzens, the same name as the witness (Ellen Cousens) at Banham's 1854 marriage; and it's also the nom d'arena Billy Banham assumed in Australia.

I am now wondering whether Lionel Pablo ever performed with Fanque.

Except, Pablo Fanque, in the 1848 inquest, describes the performer on stage when the amphitheatre section collapsed as his "son." He also describes the child who left the show to get eggs as his son. Elsewhere, the clown, Joe Blackburn, in "A Clown's Log," reports seeing "young Pablo Fanque" walk a tightrope, attended by "his daddy, a Negro" (I cannot determine the year or location of this account from the excerpted online publication).

Pablo Fanque definitely seems to suggest Banham is his son in advertisements and in the actual statements we have from him. Consider the 26 February 1838 Birminham Gazette advertisment that helachu found announcing an engagement of Pablo Fanque "and his son." Banham, according to his marriage certificate, was born around 1830. Lionel, on the other hand, if he was 12 at the time of his mother's death in 1848, would have only been 2 in 1838.

And someone on this forum also cited a published 1871 account which said Fanque received a sum of money when "a son died in Australia," which would be consistent with the time of Banham's death in Australia the late 1860's. Are there any contemporaneous accounts, prior to Pablo Fanque's death, where Banham is described as Fanque's nephew? I believe sparklingsilver said there was gossip in the Leeds papers during the time of Ann Banham's murder that Billy Banham was Pablo Fanque's illegitimate son. I will look for those accounts. If you have them sparklingsilver, I would appreciate.

The evidence to the contrary, is that Banham lists his father on his marriage certificate in 1854 as "William Banham, Musician." Did he just make that up?

On the marriage certificate Banham gives his home address as 44 Windmill St, Manchester. What more do we know about this address? I seem to recall seeing it in connection to Ted Pablo once--if I'm not misremembering. I suppose Banham could have lived with Pablo Fanque's family without being his actual son. He could even be his adopted nephew.

So much uncertainty to sort out.

[sparklingsilver]

Greenbee: - I hope to be in Manchester around the 1st/2nd July but will know better nearer the date.

The question is whether Lionel Greville and Lionel Granville is one and the same person and is that person the son of Pablo Fanque/William Darby. The simple answer is that I do not know! However, certain aspects of this man point to the possibility that they are.

Before continuing I make one observation about the spelling of Greville/Granville:
I have a friend with the surname Hervey – which unless spelt for the receiver is universally written/recorded as Harvey because that is the way my friend pronounces her name. As far as I am aware, there is no surviving record of how Lionel Greville or Lionel Granville spoke or spelt their name. What has to be taken into account is that spelling (even today) is influenced by accent and how the receiver interprets what is heard. So at present I am considering all variants – plus the general uninhibited life style of Lionel Granville reflected in that of Lionel Greville.

Lionel Darby/Greville/Pablo, according to family hearsay, left home at the age of twelve after his mother’s death in 1848 which indicates a birth year of approximately 1836/7. What is clear, from newspaper reports at the time, is that the Lionel Granville repatriated from Italy to London in 1868 had Manchester connections; and is almost certainly the same man that joined and was dismissed from the Manchester City Police Force in 1867. On recruitment in September 1867 the man gave his age as thirty. Therefore if the information given on the death of Lionel Darby/ Greville/Pablo in 1919 and, aged 83, is correct then he was born in 1836/7 the same time frame as the Manchester recruit.

Is the emergence of Lionel/Darby/Greville/Pablo for the first time in the census (1871), in the year of his father’s death, mere coincidence? With the above in mind there is certainly a little more supportive substance than physical appearance and forename to suggest that Greville and Granville is one and the same person.

Preston Chronicle 1870: Butler Street, Preston.
Accused, and charged, with theft brought by Margaret Fallows, licensee of the Railway Hotel, Butler Street, Preston. The case was dismissed on the grounds that robbery was unproven. Was this Lionel’s property being held against a debt owning? Whatever, this does give some idea of where Lionel had been at the beginning of 1870. Until further evidence can be found of where he was from the time he left home in 1847 until his re-emergence in Preston in 1870 it is unlikely that further progress can be made.

[spison]

UPDATE FROM OZ

I have located a photograph of a brother of Annie and therefore a grandson of the English Pablo FANQUE. While he says he was born in New Zealand, this can be fairly easily explained. It is conceivable that he was billing himself as of Maori descent as he was a sometime boxer.

These children are so tricky to track. If you want the references you will need to go to Annie BANHAM's biography in post #1 to find out how I know that this isn't just coincidence.

Three of the children - possibly all of them - lived in Sydney for the rest of their lives. The two brothers, John and Joseph, assumed the surname PABLO. John was variously called John PABLO or Frank PABLO. Both earned some money as boxers. Joseph was also a blacksmith. Fortunately for us Joseph was arrested for theft in 1887 and imprisoned. His image can be found on "the big A" in the NSW gaol records for 1887 under the name Joseph PABLO. There is clearly some ancestry that isn't Caucasian. John died in 1919 and Joseph in 1935.

'My' Annie was alive in 1920 and going by the name Annie PAYNE. Still tracking her. I think she also may have gone by the name BELL. I think that she had a son named Francis Michael BELL. Tricky!

Elizabeth has completely changed her name after the execution of her husband, William LIDDIARD, for murder. I'm still trying to find her! The couple had two little girls named Elizabeth and Mary Ann before William died.

Jane

[Gidget]

UPDATE FROM OZ

I have located a photograph of a brother of Annie and therefore a grandson of the English Pablo FANQUE. While he says he was born in New Zealand, this can be fairly easily explained. It is conceivable that he was billing himself as of Maori descent as he was a sometime boxer.

...
Three of the children - possibly all of them - lived in Sydney for the rest of their lives. The two brothers, John and Joseph, assumed the surname PABLO. John was variously called John PABLO or Frank PABLO. Both earned some money as boxers. Joseph was also a blacksmith. Fortunately for us Joseph was arrested for theft in 1887 and imprisoned. His image can be found on "the big A" in the NSW gaol records for 1887 under the name Joseph PABLO. There is clearly some ancestry that isn't Caucasian. John died in 1919 and Joseph in 1935.

...

'My' Annie was alive in 1920 and going by the name Annie PAYNE. Still tracking her. I think she also may have gone by the name BELL. I think that she had a son named Francis Michael BELL. Tricky!

Jane

You probably already have this but information from Trove which confirms the above:

"The Sydney Morning Herald Monday 25 October 1920 page 8:
PABLO.—In sad and loving memory of John Pablo (Frank), who departed this life October 25, 1919. Inserted by his sorrowing wife, Mary Ann Pablo, and sister, Annie Payne.
PABLO.—In sad and loving memory of John Pablo (Frank), who departed this life October 25, 1919. Inserted by his loving brother, sister-in-law, and nephew, Joseph, Emily, and Jack Pablo."

I am wondering that as Joseph D B Fanque was born in Wellington, NSW [15972/1864 FANQUE JOSEPH D B WILLIAM B MARTHA WELLINGTON ] combined with his dark colouring, there could have been some 'gilding of the lily' as to Wellington NZ or Wellington NSW?

Of interest also I find that the gaol description shows that our man has a tattoo of an anchor on his arm, which has traditionally been the stamp for sailors to show the rite of passage in passing over the equator/international date line.

[spison]

Thanks Gidget,
I agree with it all. I don't have Joseph's birth registration but I believe that the 'D. B.' will tun out to be 'Darby Banham.' I was particularly excited when I found the Funeral notice - an Ah Ha! moment. That's a good thought about Wellington in NSW and NZ. Because both the boys were boxers I feel that their exotic appearance was played on for publicity. The more I look at the boxing angle for the pair of them, the less likely I am to accept that the English Edward BANHAM came to Australia to fight as Pablo FANQUE. I'll work on the boxing angle after my trip OS.

Reported as both Frank PABLO and John PABLO in about 1914, John was arrested in connection with a major robbery in company with a forty odd year old Catherine BANNAN who John stated was a common law wife. The coincidence of this name and its closeness to BANHAM makes me wonder if she was a niece or daughter! (This was the serendipitous find that led to this revelation and locating the funeral notice. Another of 'my girls' was named Catherine BANNAN and I had forgotten to limit the year range. I sat up and took notice.)

You don't have any PAYNEs in your family do you? 'Cause I absolutely can find not confirm a trace of Annie after 1920. I also suspect that Annie was the mysterious sister, 'Mrs BELL', who took poor Elizabeth in after the execution of William LIDDIARD in 1886. Got any BELLs too?

Jane

[erinsullivan]

I have found this thread and now have to throw in my little bit of informationa and a questions or two. George CHRISTOPHER (HERR CHRISTOFF) UK Rope walker of world repute and travel had a brother John Henry CHRISTOPHER who turns up in Australia in 1854. By 1855 Wiliam BANHAM is advertising in the ARGUS MElBOURNE that his apprentice John CHRISTOFF has run away and warning all not to employ him. John CHRISTOFF then seems to start performing as J CHRISTOFF and then Herr CHRISTOFF (which must have been tricky when his brother turns up touring also). I am so bemused/confused but pretty sure that these 2 are brothers (birt records) and possiby another Kitt. Their father also Kitt was also Circus rope and balance and equestrians.

John H Christopher never uses this surname again and goes forever more as John CHRISTOFF. He appears to have married in 1858 Tumut Australia to a woman shown as Elizabeth Margaret BARHAM. Who I cannot find anything about. Not having seen original marriage records , I am thinking that the surname BARHAM and BANHAM could be confused. The coincidence of names and his obvious association with W Banham makes me wonder. The Christophers (CHRISTOFF) were also men of colour and rope walkers.

John Henry CHRISTOPHER died as John Henry CHRISTOFF in 1872 at age of 38 in The City Bank Hotel , Pitt Street Sydney with his friend Thomas Wooller as informant.

George CHRISTOPHER performed in Pablo Fanques Circus in UK and either he or his father had their own circus for a while. SO more connections. Does anyone know whether there was a Elizabeth Banham or is the BARHAM name also connected. It is more than likely she would have had some circus connection?

[spison]

Does anyone know whether there was a Elizabeth Banham or is the BARHAM name also connected. It is more than likely she would have had some circus connection?

There was at least one Elizabeth BANHAM but not early enough to have married in 1858 in Tumut. She was a sister of the girl I am trying to track, Annie BANHAM, and therefore a daughter of William BANHAM who died in Sydney in 1869. She had been born in about 1865, probably somewhere in NSW or her birth is erroneously recorded as "Male FANQUE" in Sydney. Why she is named Elizabeth I don't know. Perhaps there is a connection with your girl somewhere? If you go to the link from post #1 you can read all I have found for her. Perhaps someone else can help. You could also try contacting the Australian Circus historian. I'll PM you his name as I don't want to mention it here even though he's mentioned often online but if you google you should also find him.

Jane

[KathNZ]

There does seem to be a New Zealand connection with this family as the NZ BDM website has the births of Thomas Fanque Banham in 1856 and George William Banham in 1867, both the sons of William Banham and Martha.

[KathNZ]

Thomas died in 1856 aged 4 wks.