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  1. #1
    Coromandel
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    Default Irish wills in National Probate Calendar

    (This question has arisen, but not been answered, in another thread about the de Montmorency family: see this post in particular.)

    Post-1858 wills proved in Ireland are sometimes listed in the (English and Welsh) National Probate Calendar, with some comment about the value of the estate or effects in England.

    Is it possible in such cases to get copies of the Irish wills by the route usually used for post-1858 English and Welsh wills?

    Also (if I am allowed a supplementary question) I know that a lot of post-1858 Irish probate records were destroyed in the 1922 fire, but understand that the National Archives of Ireland have 'Will books' containing transcripts of wills from some district probate registries. Are these full transcripts of the wills? How can I find out if there are surviving books for any given date / registry? (I can't seem to get the NAI catalogue to yield up this information.)

    I see that some will books have been microfilmed by the LDS, such as 'Kilkenny District will books, 1858-1895'.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coromandel View Post

    Also (if I am allowed a supplementary question) I know that a lot of post-1858 Irish probate records were destroyed in the 1922 fire, but understand that the National Archives of Ireland have 'Will books' containing transcripts of wills from some district probate registries. Are these full transcripts of the wills?
    '.
    Have you had a look at PRONI's will calendars recently? The images are now there for some, for others just the abstract. But only for Northern Ireland. Here is a sample page

    https://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCA...chResults.aspx

  3. #3
    Coromandel
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    Oh, thanks for that reminder, grisel. I had used those a while ago for some Ulster research but haven't visited the PRONI site recently.

    I also discovered that there are some scans of modern (e.g. 1930s/19040s) probate calendars on the National Archives of Ireland site: they are indexed by name and pop up if you search their catalogue. So far nothing for the late 19th century though, which was what I was really after.

  4. #4
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    Default Irish Wills late 19th century

    These are not currently up online. The Irish National Archives launched a new site last Thursday at www.genealogy.nationalarchives.ie/
    In the write up they have indicated that in the future it will include Calendars of Wills and Administrations, 1858 – 1922 It is generally thought that these will not be available until next year.

  5. #5
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    My cousin and I were in Dublin last month, at the National Archives of Ireland for the first time. Our Irish ancestors were from Wexford, which is covered by the Waterford Distict Registry. I saw two of the Waterford Will Books, huge tomes, and they did indeed have full transcripts of the wills of three family members we were interested in. They were completed in beautiful copperplate handwriting. We saw two books - 4/213/47 covering 1888 and 4/213/50 from 1898 and 1901. This suggests to me that there are at least 50 such books, probably going back to 1858. We were in a hurry, so we didn't look at a finding aid or a list, we just asked for wills of certain dates and the staff produced the books.

    One was for a man called Patrick, who we thought might have been my g grandfather's brother, a young man who stayed behind in Ireland while the rest of the family moved to Liverpool. For all we knew he might have died in infancy because all we had was his baptism. Imagine our delight when he named his brother and his married sister in Liverpool, with full up-to-date addresses, proving he WAS the missing brother Patrick, and that he was in regular touch with them. My cousin and I did a happy dance in the hushed halls of the NAI when we saw that!

    Barbara

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    I would still like to know if Wills proved in Ireland that appear in in the English National Probate Calendar are available in England? I have 2 that I need.

    2nd question...if they are...is there ANYONE that could possibly help me get them...I can pay via PayPal. It is extremely expensive to get a check in British Sterling from the USA...much, much more than the price of the actual documents!

  7. #7
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    I have learned the answer to my own question, and I thought I'd share. According to the Reader Services Division of the National Archives of Ireland, "Where the deceased had property in more than one country – then a grant of probate / administration would have to be taken out in both."

    (ChattieKathy)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChattieKathy View Post
    I have learned the answer to my own question, and I thought I'd share. According to the Reader Services Division of the National Archives of Ireland, "Where the deceased had property in more than one country – then a grant of probate / administration would have to be taken out in both."

    (ChattieKathy)
    UPDATE:
    A person related to the family I am researching sent in England for probate record for the individual I am searching for, but was told there was no record of it, and since the man died in Ireland, that is where it would be located. She did not send a copy of the page in the Calendar of Wills from England that shows that this man owned property in England. According to the National Archives of Ireland, this will SHOULD be filed in England if he owned property there. Unfortunately, this will did not survive in Ireland.

    Is there ANYBODY that can go to a Records Office and inquire for me?? I cannot get a check in British Sterling without a HUGE fee (over $75). I would be happy to reimburse via PayPal...or personal check....what ever is prefered.

    According to the Calendar of Wills, Harvey Francis DeMontmorency died 25 December 1874 in Dublin Ireland. Probate was granted 25 Jan 1875 at Dublin.

    Since I didn't write the request for the document myself, I'm not sure if there was some sort of confusion.

    PLEASE HELP!!!
    (Chattie) Kathy

  9. #9
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    I can confirm that there ought to be some paperwork in England. I have seen many cases where the position was reversed. That is the person was born in Ireland where they had property, but died in England.

    In those cases there is a separate probate file in either Belfast or Dublin as appropriate. The term used is “re-sealing the will” for some reason. What I can’t recall (and what you really want to know) is whether they keep a local copy of the will. I am not sure that they do, but I might be wrong. What you would expect to find is the stock form used to summarise and value the Irish estate. So if that’s also the case in England it would at least give you some information.

    In your original post you asked whether the transcript copies kept by some registries in Ireland are full copies. The answer is yes, they are full copies of the will. However what you don’t get are the additional documents you would find in a normal probate file ie summary and valuation of the estate plus the executors oaths (which can contain additional information such as the deceased’s marital status and next of kin, some addresses etc.).
    ELWYN

  10. #10
    Mutley
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    A very kind member of the forum found a family will for me. The death was in 1959. I have downloaded a copy of the order form for a "Copy of Testamentary Document"

    It asks that I tick the box for my requirements.
    Will (up to 5pp) €15
    Grant of Probate €15
    Grant of Administration €15
    Schedule of Assets €40
    Certified copies are more expensive.

    He only left a couple of hundred pounds and had no property. Please can you tell me which of the documents I need to order?
    Do I need the certified copies for my genealogy files?
    https://www.nationalarchives.ie/genea...ntary-records/

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