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  1. #1
    aussiemez
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    Default Frederick Alfred POOLE

    Hi there, hoping someone can help with a brick wall. Looking for information on Frederick Alfred Poole. According to marriage and death cert he was born in France about 1826. His parents (according to his marriage cert) were John Poole - Lieutenant British army and Harriet Wilson. He married Alice Maher on 12 Sept 1870, but had been married before. His first wife died 10 March 1868 (according to marriage cert) and he had two living children from this marriage at the time of his second. I don't know who his first wife was or where she died.

    I found an 1841 census - Parish Radford that has a Johnand Harriet Poole with some of their children born in 'foreign parts'. But this John Poole was a lace maker not in the army - though the dates tie in quite nicely.

    I found an article about "Deaths in Melbourne Hospital" Jan 1871 to Dec 1872 that has him listed as "Frederick Poole, tinsmith, aged 46, native of France; arrived by the Christina, died April 27 (1872) of morbis cordis."

    His marriage cert to Alice Maher also states that he is a tinsmith, but a newspaper announcement relating to the marriage says that he is an "auctioneer and estate agent, late of Sydney"

    Can find no record of his arrival, his first marriage or children by this marriage. Also cannot confirm who his parents are.

    Any help or advise would be greatly appreciated.

    Regards

    Merranie

  2. #2
    Knowledgeable and helpful warncoort's Avatar
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    1851 census has
    John,Widower,58, born Leicestershire
    Henry,born Calais
    Marian,born Calais
    Augustus,born Calais
    HO 107/2129
    By 1841 he would have been mid 40's and had given soldiering away.
    I take it your man did come to Australia.

  3. #3
    Knowledgeable and helpful warncoort's Avatar
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    1861 census RG9/2448
    In Radford,this time Elizabeth is head with children not previously mentioned along with Marian born Calais.Freebmd has death of Harriet Dec Qtr 1841 and John Mar Qtr 1857.It would appear John and Elizabeth did not marry but set up house and her children took his name.
    Have you found Frederick on any census after 1841 as that may help to trace his first wife?

  4. #4

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    1851 (Ho107 2129 240 12)

    Uagustus and Henry - born Calais

  5. #5
    janbooth
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    Family Search has the baptismal records of 3 of the children to the above parents, John Henry in 1825, Eliza in 1831 and Augustus in 1833 all at Calais. Do be aware, however, that as this John POOLE and his children are shown as connected with the Lace Industry in the 1841/51 census records, that a lot of Nottinghamshire Lace Makers spent time living and working in Calais and that he may therefore not be connected to your John POOLE who was a Lieutenant in the British Army.

    Have you tried to trace John's Military Records using the National Archives catalogue. If you put his name into the catalogue search and the year range 1810-40 and the Department Code WO, it comes up with 27 records of a John POOLE who served in the Army. Perhaps you may find one that corresponds with what you know about your John.

    Good luck

    Janet

  6. #6
    aussiemez
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    Hi All. Thanks so much for your help. I had seen the census stuff from 1841, 1851 and keep coming back to them. Mainly because the coincidences are too strong. The name of the parents is exactly the same and there is a perfect gap in the birth years of the children for Frederick to slip into (around 1826). Also the fact that several of the children are born in France seems too strong a coincidence. What mainly bothers me is the occupation of John Poole (lace maker v british lieutenant) and the fact that Frederick's name doesn't appear on any of the census reports - though there could possibly be explanations for this??

  7. #7
    Brick wall demolition expert!
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiemez View Post
    What mainly bothers me is the occupation of John Poole (lace maker v british lieutenant)
    Yes but in 1861 it has...

    1861: Piece: 2454 Folio: 104 Page: 20
    Raleigh Street, St Marys, Nottingham
    POOL, John, head, widower, 70, Pensioner Army, Shepshed Leicestershire
    POOL, Marian, dua, 28, seamstress, France Calais
    POOL, Harriet A, granddau, 4, Nottingham Nottinghamshire
    DAY, Fanny, niece

    By the way, John POOLE is a lace seller in the 1841 census and not a lace maker. This ties in with his occupation of agent in 1851.

    Quote Originally Posted by aussiemez View Post
    Tand the fact that Frederick's name doesn't appear on any of the census reports - though there could possibly be explanations for this??
    In the 1841 census, son Alfred POOLE, age 13 is listed. This could be your Frederick Alfred POOLE.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiemez View Post
    His marriage cert to Alice Maher also states that he is a tinsmith, but a newspaper announcement relating to the marriage says that he is an "auctioneer and estate agent, late of Sydney"
    Wondering if this could be Frederick in 1853?

    The Maitland Mercury & Hunter River General Advertiser (NSW : 1843 - 1893)
    Saturday 26 November 1853

    INSOLVENCY PROCEEDINGS.
    NEW INSOLVENCY

    Nov. 21-Fredenck Alfred Poole, formerly of Pitt-street, Sydney, publican, afterward of Park-street, auctioneer, and now of Sussex street, out of business. Liabilities, £185 8s. 4d , assets, value of personal property, £12, outstanding debts, £22, total, £34. Deficiency, £151 8s. 4d. Mr W. Perry, official assignee.


    There are other bits and pieces on Trove relating to this insolvency. Also a case relating to the fraudulently removing of the goods of an insolvent in 1855, in which Frederick Alfred Poole was involved.

  9. #9
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    Still trying to trace Frederick's movement. There was a birth of a Frederick A Poole in 1857 in NSW to parents Frederick A Poole and Ellen. Don't know if this connected yet. Couldn't see a birth for another POOLE child on the NSW BDM to parents Frederick and Ellen and would need to find a death for Ellen Poole.

    From the following, it appears that your Frederick was in Melbourne by 1868.

    The Argus (Melbourne, Vic. : 1848 - 1956) Wednesday 8 July 1868

    Frederick A. Poole was charged, on summons, with neglecting to contribute to the support of his two children, at present inmates of the Industrial School. Defendant did not put in an appearance. A warrant was ordered to be issued for his arrest, and the Bench recommended the discharge of the children from the school. Messrs. Harker, Levy, and Mayne, J.P.'s, were the presiding magistrates.

  10. #10
    Coromandel
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    Post #9 of this thread on a French forum may be of interest:

    https://www.
    gennpdc.net/lesforums/index.php?showtopic=43946

    It has some birth registrations from Calais including these children of John Poole and his wife 'Henriette' Wilson:
    • Henri, b.1825 (father aged 32, a 'mécanicien', and mother aged 22)
    • another Henri, b.1829 at 279 rue de la Douane (father aged 37, 'fabricant de tulle', mother aged 25)
    • Elisa, b.1831 at 190 rue de la Douane (father aged 39, 'fabricant de tulle', mother aged 27)
    • Auguste, b. 1833 at 175 rue de la Comédie; informant was the 'acchoucheuse' (midwife?), mother shown as 28 years 11 months 'sans profession' and father as 41 years 11 months ('fabricant de tulle, demeurant à Calais, maintenant absent')


    also an Anne Poole b.1826 dau. of Thomas Poole (38, 'fabricant de tulle' and his wife Elizabeth Wilson, 31).

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