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Thread: HAVELL Chelsea

  1. #1
    Hollytree
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    Default HAVELL Chelsea

    Hi doing some research for sister in law

    Richard HAVELL 45 a trunk maker in 1841 (HO 107/686/f52 -TNA copyright)

    He and Sarah baptised two (that I can find) at St Luke Chelsea
    Nancy 12 Oct 1794
    Richard Thomas bp 15 May 1796

    And I think that Richard (widower) married Mary Love at St Luke Chelsea 25 Feb 1813.

    But, and this is the brickwall:

    I have so far been unsuccessful in finding a marriage of Richard to Sarah?? at Chelsea. I think he died before the 1851 census so no clue of his pob

    Any ideas, any one researching this family. After Richard I have found from Ancestry parish registers quite a lot of info, but would like to go backwards!

    Thanks

    Anne

  2. #2
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    Anne,
    It is a physical impossibility for the Richard aged 45 in the 1841 census to be the father of the Richard Thomas baptised in 1796.
    I think the Richard in the 1841 census is the one baptised in 1796.
    So it would seem that you're looking for a marriage of a Richard and Sarah prior to 1794 (when Nancy was baptised).

    They could have married in Westminster, which is not too far from Chelsea, and I understand that Ancestry don't have those records, but that FMP are due to have them later this year.

    Judging by ages in the 1841 census Richard the trunk maker seems to have married an Elizabeth.

    Pam

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    Ancestry have a marriage of a Richard Thomas Havell and Elizabeth Woolger, 8 Aug 1824, at St George's Hanover Square.
    Ancestry also have the baptisms of all the children listed in the 1841 census, plus George.

    Pam

  4. #4
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    Sarah Havell buried 13 April 1806, St Luke, Chelsea.

    FreeBMD has a death registration for a Richard Thomas Havill June quarter 1858, Chelsea registration district.

    (Sorry, I'm mixing the generations!)

    The family have probably been around the Chelsea area for quite a while. There's a burial of a Richard Havell, aged 88 (therefore born c1737!) at St Luke, Chelsea in 1825. Not beyond the realms of possibility for him to be the father of the Richard Thomas baptised in 1796 though his wife would have had to have been a few years younger than him.

    Pam

  5. #5
    Hollytree
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Downes View Post
    Anne,
    It is a physical impossibility for the Richard aged 45 in the 1841 census to be the father of the Richard Thomas baptised in 1796.
    I think the Richard in the 1841 census is the one baptised in 1796.
    So it would seem that you're looking for a marriage of a Richard and Sarah prior to 1794 (when Nancy was baptised).

    They could have married in Westminster, which is not too far from Chelsea, and I understand that Ancestry don't have those records, but that FMP are due to have them later this year.

    Judging by ages in the 1841 census Richard the trunk maker seems to have married an Elizabeth.

    Pam
    Ta everso, I should have worked that out..........grrrrr

    Perhaps I'll wait for FMP then.

    I've got the baptisms of the third generation and some of their descendents.

    There are two (maybe more) quite prominent artists carrying this name, and I think the family of my relative did wonder if there was any connection, but I so far haven't been able to make this out.

    Keep plugging on

    Thanks

    Anne

  6. #6
    Havell
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    Greetings I am a direct descendant and have been working on the tree for many years now.

    This is what I have:

    Richard I (Heavill) marries Elizabeth Peirsome - St James, London 1682
    Children: Richard 1683 (d 1686), Mary 1685, Jane 1688 - all St Andrew's Wardrobe
    A Richard Havell- citizen of London - is paying parish tax St Martin Vintry - 1694
    Richard II (Havill) marries Elizabeth Fielder -1701
    Children, Richard III, Dorothy 1703, Elizabeth, John
    Family business - Basket weavers - guild officials, mother Elizabeth apprentices John in 1730 as a basket weaver.
    1713 - Elizabeth (nee Piersome) dies - St Martin Vintry
    1714 - Richard Havell dies - St Martin Vintry
    1728 - Richard Havell marries Mary Davies - St Giles Gripplegate
    1733 - Richard III Havell marries Anne Pouderey - Fleet - profession - cordwainer (shoemaker)
    1737 - Richard IV Havell born - dies 1825 - Chelsea - other possible child is Sarah mentioned in relation to the birth of child Randall in 1763 - St James Westminster.
    1748 - Elizabeth Haveill ( nee Fielder) dies - WILL PROB - mentions sons Richard, John - daughters Dorothy and Elizabeth.
    1761 - Richard V Havell - son of Richard and Suzanna Havell - St James, Westminster.
    1771 - Elizabeth sister of Richard, Dorothy and John dies - PROB WILL
    1775 - John Havall - pays £5 5s for Basket makers Livery grant
    1794 - Nancy Havall - daughter of Richard V Havall and Sarah
    1796 - Richard VI Thomas Havall c - St Luke's Chelsea

    Where did the London Havell cluster come from? Strangely William Havell, the artist mentions in his memoirs a meeting between his father Luke Havell and probably John Havell, who had a basketmakers shop/business in Long Lane, London. John said that his family tradition was that the Havells of London originally came from Moulsford. John apparently showed Luke Havell a family coat of arms he had displayed in the shop. This meeting was around 1770.

  7. #7
    Hollytree
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    Thanks for posting this, I have to go through the notes I have made before I respond..............already got confused with dates

    The only HAVELL that you have posted, that appears on my research notes is Nancy HAVELL bp 12 Oct 1794 at St Luke Chelsea d/o Richard & Sarah. I think that my sister in law's connection comes from Richard Thomas HAVELL (Nancy's brother) who married Elizabeth WOOLGER at St George Hanover and then from Stephen Charles HAVELL bp 24 June 1838 at St Luke Chelsea...........

    But I have to really tidy up notes etc before I can feel certain that this is her direct line. I will try to enter what I feel certain of into my data and send a report to you.

    Thanks

    Anne

  8. #8
    Hollytree
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    Further to this research, I have found a marriage at St George Hanover Square of Richard HEVILL to Sarah HICKMAN on 4th Aug 1793......which fits in nicely with the baptism of Nancy HAVELL St Luke Chelsea

    Anne

  9. #9
    Havell
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    I made major advances with this family mainly due to London Apprenticeship Abstracts.
    1. I recently obtained a copy of Richard Haveill and Elizabeth Fielder's marriage licence. This told me he was 24, she over 21 and both from St Martin Vintry Parish. Her father was William Fielder, Basketmaker of the same Parish.
    2. In the 1692 London Apprenticeship Abstracts, I discovered that Richard Heavell, son of Luke Heavell, husbandman (farmer) of Moulsford, Berkshire was apprenticed to William Fielder, Basketmaker.

    So Richard originally came from Moulsford, born 1677 (Moulsford parish records are quite poor) He married William Fielder's younger daughter, also born in 1699 in St Martin Vintry Parish. They would have know each other since they were 14 years old. The other Richard Havell, married to Elizabeth Peirsome could be an uncle or older cousin, as I have an older Richard Havell in the same parish who is a basketmaker and is a master to an apprentice from Cholsey, Berkshire (A neighbouring village of Moulsford)

    Richard son of Richard and Elizabeth Fielder, is never mentioned as a basketmaker though his younger brother John is. He assumes control of the family business according to Elizabeth's will of 1748 and appears frequently in the London Apprenticeship abstracts.

    Richard is mentioned in the London Apprenticeship Abstracts of 1727 as Richard, son of Richard Haveill, of St Martin Vintry, and is apprenticed as a Blacksmith.

    The next time a Richard appears it as a cordwainer, in his Fleet marriage of 1733 (see above)
    Then in 1794 Richard Havell of Chelsea, cordwainer, takes on an apprentice. This Richard was quite established member of Chelsea society appearing on various Parish committees.

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