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  1. #21
    bettyespana
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    Quote Originally Posted by olliecat View Post
    Son James SENIOR is also recorded as born Derbyshire in one census and like you I wonder if it is a phonetic spelling of Denbighshire. Can't really distinguish between Derbyshire and Denbyshire on the image itself.

    Well much to my disgust, Benj SENIOR and family are wearing armour plated disguises in 1841.
    However, I do wonder if this is daughter Amelia in 1851...

    1851: Piece: 2203; Folio: 473; Page: 3
    Winwick Street, Warrington
    SENIOR Amelia, 31, servant, Moss Denbighshire
    Servant to a EDELSTEN or EALEBSTON family
    You are probably correct as I have Amelia b.1821 ch.2.3.1821 down as a servant

    bettyespana

  2. #22
    bettyespana
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    Exclamation Benjamin Senior c 1795 Wrexham

    Quote Originally Posted by Coromandel View Post
    Another death announcement, this time from the Northern Star & Leeds General Advertiser of 3 April 1841:

    'On Friday, the 19th ult., at Ashton-under-Lyne, in the 13th year of her age, Miss Martha Senior, eldest daughter of Mr. Benjamin Senior, wire worker, of Wales. She was greatly lamented by a large circle of both friends and relations.'

    But if she really was the eldest daughter, yet only aged 13, it seems this isn't the same Benjamin Senior (with wife Elizabeth) who was having children baptised in 1818-1823 (unless the older girls died). What was Martha doing in Ashton under Lyne, and why was her death announced in the Northern Star?
    Perhaps the newspaper made the mistake of saying that Martha Senior was the "eldest daughter" .Although I don't know what happened to Amelia,I do know that Ann the "eldest daughter" was a servant in the 1851c a fact that olliecat has also found.
    Ashton under Lyne is near Oldham in Lancashire & it does seem a coincidence that this Benjamin Senior is also a Wire Worker.
    Perhaps Martha's death was not of normal circumstances & that is why it was announced in the newspaper.

  3. #23
    Coromandel
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    You could send off for a death certificate to find out the cause of Martha's death and get confirmation of her age. It may also provide additional clues, such as the address where she died.

    There's a death registration in the first quarter of 1841 in the 'Ashton &c' district of a Martha Senior.

  4. #24
    bettyespana
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coromandel View Post
    You could send off for a death certificate to find out the cause of Martha's death and get confirmation of her age. It may also provide additional clues, such as the address where she died.

    There's a death registration in the first quarter of 1841 in the 'Ashton &c' district of a Martha Senior.
    Thank you Coramandel for all your input & advice but unfortunately I have had to stop sending for certs.This is because we have a abysmal postal service where I am in Spain & it is amazing how many certs " get lost".
    As I am a silver surfer I can no longer support the expense of taking a chance that I may get the certs.

    bettyespana

  5. #25
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    Sorry, I seem to have misled you slightly re the baptisms of Josep Bithell and George in 1823. Bithell was Joseph's middle name , they both had the same surname of Senior.

    Emeltee

  6. #26
    bettyespana
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    Quote Originally Posted by emeltee View Post
    Sorry, I seem to have misled you slightly re the baptisms of Josep Bithell and George in 1823. Bithell was Joseph's middle name , they both had the same surname of Senior.

    Emeltee
    That is OK emeltee,I never gave that a thought & yet it was quite common for people to do that.I actually have 4 grandchildren by my daughter & all of them have both names of their parents (why I don't know).I suppose it is down to choices but can be a bit of a nightmare for us amateur genealogists.
    The only problem now is the date of Joseph Bithell Senior & George Seniors baptism date.I have 29.5.1823 as previously advised & you have found a date in 1825.Which is the correct one?

    bettyespana

  7. #27
    bettyespana
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    In the Familysearch records it has the dates for Joseph b. to Benjamin & Elizabeth Senior similar to those I have b.8.12.1822
    but just to confuse the issue ch.9.2.1823 not 29.5.1823.
    I cannot find any reference to George Senior other than one buried in Warrington 25.1.1859 which states he was b.1826.It doesn't say where & doesn't name parents.
    I have had a look at the Clwyd site & saw the baptisms you found emeltee in the lists of Seniors.However I also looked under Bithell *399 & it only mentions Joseph Bithell Senior s/o Benjamin Senior (wire drawer) & Elizabeth Bithell - Gwersyllt.
    If they were twins I would have thought they might have referenced it.What do you think?

    bettyespana

  8. #28
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    I've checked the original image on the non conformist register and it just gives Joseoph son of Benjamin Senior, wire drawer, and his wife Elizabeth daughter of Joseph and Mary Bythell (their spelling not mine). Joseph was born 9 December 1822 and baptised 9 February 1823. There is no mention of a George so perhaps this Joseph died and Joseph Bithell and George were born later. The only other thing could be a mis transcription of some sort. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

    Emeltee

  9. #29
    Coromandel
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    I have come across occasional instances where the same child is baptised more than once . . . firstly as an infant and then again when another younger sibling is baptised. So another possible explanation for the findings is that Joseph was baptised twice, and that George is a younger brother rather than a twin.

    Quote Originally Posted by bettyespana View Post
    I cannot find any reference to George Senior other than one buried in Warrington 25.1.1859 which states he was b.1826.
    Is this from a transcription? It is probably just giving a calculated year of birth based on his age when he died. If you looked at the burial register itself it probably says he was 23 years old when he died. As he died in January it is quite likely that he hadn't yet had his birthday . . . and if his 24th birthday was in 1859 then that would give a birth year of 1825 not 1826.

    This does fit nicely with the baptism found by emeltee. But if the George baptised in 1825 survived, we should be able to pick him up on the 1841 and 1851 censuses. The George who died in 1859 (whether or not he is the same George baptised in 1825) should also appear on those two censuses, so perhaps a hunt for him will pay off.

    His death certificate may of course tell you more. I know you have had trouble with getting them getting lost in the post, but if it is the only way to make progress with the family history then I would try to find a way round the problem. Perhaps you could place the order for certificates but get them sent to someone with a better postal service? They could then scan them and e-mail them to you.

  10. #30
    bettyespana
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    Default Benjamin Senior c 1795 Wrexham

    Quote Originally Posted by Coromandel View Post
    I have come across occasional instances where the same child is baptised more than once . . . firstly as an infant and then again when another younger sibling is baptised. So another possible explanation for the findings is that Joseph was baptised twice, and that George is a younger brother rather than a twin.



    Is this from a transcription? It is probably just giving a calculated year of birth based on his age when he died. If you looked at the burial register itself it probably says he was 23 years old when he died. As he died in January it is quite likely that he hadn't yet had his birthday . . . and if his 24th birthday was in 1859 then that would give a birth year of 1825 not 1826.

    This does fit nicely with the baptism found by emeltee. But if the George baptised in 1825 survived, we should be able to pick him up on the 1841 and 1851 censuses. The George who died in 1859 (whether or not he is the same George baptised in 1825) should also appear on those two censuses, so perhaps a hunt for him will pay off.

    His death certificate may of course tell you more. I know you have had trouble with getting them getting lost in the post, but if it is the only way to make progress with the family history then I would try to find a way round the problem. Perhaps you could place the order for certificates but get them sent to someone with a better postal service? They could then scan them and e-mail them to you.
    It actually said that George was 33yrs at death not 23yrs.That would be more correct I think as 1859 - 1826 = 33

    As far as the certs are concerned I have tried other ways & it just isn't an option but thank you for your advice it is appreciated.

    bettyespana

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