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  1. #1
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    Default Clarke family in Newcastle

    I'm trying to trace the family of my step-father, on his father's side, and running into some problems because of the large number of people named 'John Clarke.' I have an address for the family in 1880, from my grandfather's birth certificate, but it doesn't seem to exist today. The address is 3 Cromwell Street, Newcastle, in the sub-district of Westgate. Was this street renamed or demolished? Any help would be much appreciated. I did find a Cromwell Road in Newcastle. but I'm not sure if that's the same place.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by patk View Post
    The address is 3 Cromwell Street, Newcastle, in the sub-district of Westgate. Was this street renamed or demolished? Any help would be much appreciated. I did find a Cromwell Road in Newcastle. but I'm not sure if that's the same place.
    If you look at households near 3 Cromwell Street on the 1881 census found by notanotherminer, you'll see that Elswick Street is nearby. The Old Maps website shows that there was a Cromwell Street near Westgate Cemetery, running parallel to Elswick Row and Gloucester Road. It is still there on the 1960s map but not in the 1980s.

    PS: Elswick Row and part of Gloucester Road can be seen on Google Maps.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by notanotherminer View Post
    No.3 Cromwell Street, Westgate, Newcastle was occupied by one Duncan McColl and his family in 1881. Also with them was a domestic servant, Agnes Burnett, but nobody, I'm afraid by, the name of Clarke.

    RG11/5050/128/page 14 Crown Copyright TNA

    Can you please give us all the details from the birth certificate so we can maybe help you to find them?
    Yes, I can. But I note that the information entered on the certificate I have is typed. Most of the others I've accumulated for this period are hand-written, apparently in facsimile of the original. Not sure if this is significant. In other respects it appears to be
    on the up-and-up. It is actually a copy of cert. ordered originally in Sept. 1945

    The registration district is Newcastle upon Tyne, sub-district Westgate in the counties of Newcastle on Tyne and Northumberland. The birth took place December 3rd 1880 at 3 Cromwell Street, Newcastle U.S.D. This is the same address that appears in column 8 as the home of John Clarke, the father of the child whose name was John Lish Clarke. The date of registration of the birth was January 11th 1881. The mother's name was 'Eleanor Clarke formerly Cole. The father of the child is described as a 'Gentleman' and came from money; his father, also John Clarke of course, left a fortune of 20,000 pounds in 1875, an enormous sum at the time.

    Hope this helps.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by patk View Post
    I'm trying to trace the family of my step-father, on his father's side, and running into some problems because of the large number of people named 'John Clarke.'
    John Lish CLARKE and his parents are in the census.

    1881: RG12; Piece: 4199; Folio 4; Page 2
    16 Summerhill Terrace, Westgate, Northumberland
    CLARKE, John 26, head, gentleman
    CLARKE, Eleanor 22, wife,
    CLARKE, Eleanor 3, dau
    CLARKE, John Sish [Lish], 4 mo, son
    WATSON, Elizabeth 17, servant
    COLE, Sarah Ann 24, visitor, milliner

    1891: RG12; Piece: 4199; Folio 4; Page 2
    10 Warrington Road, Elswick, Northumberland
    CLARKE, John 36, head, stained glass merchant
    CLARKE, Eleanor 37, wife
    CLARKE, John L 10, son
    CLARKE, Maud 5, dau
    CLARKE, Norman 2, son
    COLE, Elizabeth 30, sister-in-law
    COLE, Clara 16, sister-in-law
    COLE, Flora 3, neice,
    CLARKE, Arthur E 8, son
    All born Newcastle-upon-Tyne

    (Census, crown copyright, care of the TNA)

    You have another thread here with details on John Clarke senior and his parents/grandparents. So could you tell us who you are having problems with trying to trace.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by olliecat View Post
    John Lish CLARKE and his parents are in the census.

    1881: RG12; Piece: 4199; Folio 4; Page 2
    16 Summerhill Terrace, Westgate, Northumberland
    CLARKE, John 26, head, gentleman
    CLARKE, Eleanor 22, wife,
    CLARKE, Eleanor 3, dau
    CLARKE, John Sish [Lish], 4 mo, son
    WATSON, Elizabeth 17, servant
    COLE, Sarah Ann 24, visitor, milliner

    1891: RG12; Piece: 4199; Folio 4; Page 2
    10 Warrington Road, Elswick, Northumberland
    CLARKE, John 36, head, stained glass merchant
    CLARKE, Eleanor 37, wife
    CLARKE, John L 10, son
    CLARKE, Maud 5, dau
    CLARKE, Norman 2, son
    COLE, Elizabeth 30, sister-in-law
    COLE, Clara 16, sister-in-law
    COLE, Flora 3, neice,
    CLARKE, Arthur E 8, son
    All born Newcastle-upon-Tyne

    (Census, crown copyright, care of the TNA)

    You have another thread here with details on John Clarke senior and his parents/grandparents. So could you tell us who you are having problems with trying to trace.
    Olliecat, Hi:

    Thanks for the census details, and you've helped me with this problem before. What I've discovered is an apparent contradiction with the 1881 census (which shows the the family residing at the address you cite) and the birth certificate for John Lish Clarke in 1881 which shows the family at a totally different address in the same area (Westgate) but which, according to the census, is occupied by a different family entirely.

    The whole family is a mystery. On John Lish Clarke's wedding certificate (he married in March 1913), he states that his father was deceased. His older sister Eleanor married in November the same year and indicates on her certificate that their father is still alive. I've yet to find a reliable date for the father's death as a result.

    I've likewise still not fathomed where the middle name 'Lish' came from. A John Clarke married a Jane Lish in the 1780s, but it seems odd for the name to have remained dormant for 100 years.

    John Lish Clarke also had a brother named Ernest; my stepfather recalls him clearly, and he's quite different to Arthur Ernest Clarke, another brother. But I've found no trace of him. It's all most puzzling, but it really is good of everyone to be so helpful.

  6. #6
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    Default 3 Cromwell Street, Newcastle

    Quote Originally Posted by patk View Post
    I'm trying to trace the family of my step-father, on his father's side, and running into some problems because of the large number of people named 'John Clarke.' I have an address for the family in 1880, from my grandfather's birth certificate, but it doesn't seem to exist today. The address is 3 Cromwell Street, Newcastle, in the sub-district of Westgate. Was this street renamed or demolished? Any help would be much appreciated. I did find a Cromwell Road in Newcastle. but I'm not sure if that's the same place.
    A long shot as this was posted a long time ago, buy my great grandmother lived at 3 Cromwell Street for many years in the first half of the 20th century, and my father and aunt wrote accounts of their memories of the house. The road still exists and is misspelt Cormwell Street on Google.

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