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  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Where to go next with Cave Shenton

    Hi there,

    I'd like a bit of advice about where to go next with one of my husband's ancestors, the wonderfully named Cave Shenton. I've had a lot of help from the nice people over at the Shenton One Name study, but I am now at the point where I know I need certificates to continue, but am not sure which is the best road to take. He is, shall we say, an interesting character!

    Cave was born about 1820 in Leicestershire.
    He married Sarah in 1839.
    In 1851 he is living with his wife Sarah in Nottingham and works as a master cordwainer employing 2 apprentices.
    In 1854 he marries Mary Ann Wright in Huddersfield.
    In 1861 he is living in Leeds with his wife Mary Ann (from Londonderry) and his son, Walter (Liverpool), Alfred (Notts) daughter Sarah Ann (Liverpool) and lists himself as a shoemaker for women.
    In 1861 Sarah is still alive and well in Nottingham.
    In 1871 Cave is back in Nottingham with his wife Sarah, and is listed as a cordwainer.
    In 1871 Mary Ann is still alive and well in Leeds, living with her kids and listing herself as married (she is now a boot binder).
    In 1875, Cave Shenton marries Mary Ann Wright in Leeds. Again.
    In 1878, Cave and his eldest son, Walter, are locked up for larceny in Lincolnshire.
    In 1881 I can't find Cave, Mary Ann, Sarah or Walter.
    In 1881 Alfred Cave Shenton, Cave's son, is living in Hull. He is also a boot finisher.
    In 1882 Walter Shenton marries Mary Kidney (nee Seeley) in Hull.
    In 1884, Cave Shenton dies in Hull.
    Can't find them on the 1891 census again - although another one of Caves sons, Thomas, seems to be living in Hull.
    In 1899, Walter Shenton shows up in the Hull Kelly's Directory
    In 1901, Mary Ann Shenton is living in Hull - although she's lost over a decade (she tends to age 4 years each census)
    In 1902, Mary Ann dies in Hull.


    Confused! Am I right in thinking that Cave is probably a bigamist - and that he may have got away with it? Is it likely that the second marriage to Mary Ann is to the same woman? Does this indicate a possible divorce, or just that she's made him renew his vows, so to speak? Also, is it normal for a bootmaker to move about this much?? Once his sons settle in Hull they pretty much stay put, so I was surprised to find evidence of Cave in four different counties during his career, literally from coast to coast!

    My main question, though, is where do I start in regards to getting official documents? I'm on a tight budget and already have a list of things to get for other branches of the tree, but I keep coming back to this and wondering what on earth Cave Shenton was up to - and if there is any way of working it out from offical sources. I was thinking of starting by ordering the Huddersfield marriage certificate, since my husband is descended from Mary Ann's oldest son, Walter, or would I be better off trying to get hold of the 1839 certificate? It would be nice to get Cave's father's name, so i guess one of his marriage certificates rather than his death certificate would be the place to start? Also, I have the copy of his name in the court book - would there be more detailed records of his trial, and if so, where do I go for them?

    Sorry for so many questions, I'm just a bit baffled as to what is going on with this man - and why he keeps disappearing, or turning up in a completely different part of the country to where I expect him.

  2. #2
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    well I think this might be the easy bit :-)
    Cave Shenton christened 31 March 1820 Blaby, Leicester, England F. John Shenton M. Anna
    I found this on the IGI....it isn't an extracted record but they do list sources

    Regards
    Fiona

  3. #3
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    Talking Working down the list......

    From the Freebmd site:
    Cave marries either Sarah Baker or Sarah Spurway in Leicester in the September quarter of 1839 Vol 15 Page 117.....

    Fiona

  4. #4
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    I think you need to buy Cave's marriage certificate for 1839......I've just looked at a public family tree on Ancest........ and it suggests that Cave married Mary Ann Jackson (another option on Feebmd Vol 15 P 117) in 1839 and says that all the children are to that relationship and that she is his only wife. There are also a couple of private trees there as well....... might be helpful talking to someone else researching the same tree

    Fiona
    Last edited by Fiona67; 20-04-2011 at 2:31 AM. Reason: my spelling :-)

  5. #5
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    Default Cave's sisters

    On the IGI there are 3 sisters listed for Cave ie born to John & Anna at Blaby
    Sarah Christening 12 Feb 1815 Blaby, Leicester, England
    Mary Ann Christening 3 June 1817 Blaby, Leicester, England Death: 4 November 1819
    Mary Christening 3 September 1822 Blaby, Leicester, England

    Possible marriage for John & Anna
    John Shenton m Anna Bennett 5 May 1812 Aylestone, Leicester, England

    This isn't an extracted record but there are sources listed to check it out

    Regards
    Fiona

  6. #6
    Coromandel
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    To help unravel what was going on, it is crucial that you get copies of the marriage records (preferably all of them). For church weddings you should be able to save yourself the cost of a certificate by looking at the original church register (usually in the care of the relevant county record office). It will contain exactly the same information as a certificate. For register office marriages you will need to buy the certificate in order to see the details.

    The snag is that the GRO index only shows registration district, not actual place of the marriage. From online sources I can narrow down where two of the marriages took place:

    The Huddersfield Chronicle and West Yorkshire Advertiser, 4 March 1854 (on 19th Century British Library Newspapers) announced this marriage:

    'On the 2nd instant, at the Parish Church, Mr. Cave Shenton to Miss Mary Ann Wright, both of this town.'
    (Your next step with this one would be to find out where the Huddersfield marriage registers for this period are held.)

    Yorkshire BMDs (at yorkshirebmd.org.uk - put www. in front) shows that the 1875 marriage of Cave Shenton and Mary A. Wright took place at 'Leeds Registered Building'.

    You mentioned the prison sentence. The 19th c. Newspapers site also has a brief report from the Hull Packet, of the trial of Cave Shenton and Walter Shenton in 1878, for stealing a pair of boots. Do you have this already?

  7. #7
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    thank you all so much for your help, he's the first ancestor who wasn't relatively strightforward so I really appreciate the help and advice!

    Fiona, thanks for that info! On one of the census records Cave says he is from Blaby (can't remember which one without checking files) so thank you SO much for that, hopefully I can now tie him into the larger tree.

    I've seen the ref to Mary Ann Jackson before on a public tree and after chatting through the options with the people running the one name study we reckon that is wrong, since we pick up Mary Ann on the census and she is born in Ireland. We're pretty sure that Mary Ann Wright is the correct mother of Walter & co, although why Cave marries her twice is not something we've figured out.

    Coromandel, thanks for those - I hadn't thought of checking the newspapers, and no I didn't have the Hull Packet ref at all, I assumed I would have to look in Lincolnshire and it didn't occur to me they might already be based in Hull and that the local paper would pick it up - I'll get me down to the History Centre and check it out. Out of interest, is the 19th Century biritsh newspapers online, or can I purchase it somewhere? I've got some ne-erdowells on my own tree I wouldn't mind nosing in the papers for.

    Thanks SO much, the shentons were certainly characters, and you have absolutely made my day with all this help :-)

    Gem

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemmanoon View Post
    We're pretty sure that Mary Ann Wright is the correct mother of Walter & co,
    If Walter is your direct ancestor, you may want to get his birth certificate before pursuing the marriages. It should confirm his mother's maiden name.

    Given the complications of this family, it might be as well to be confident of that piece of information before going further.

  9. #9
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    HI Kerry,

    I should have phrased that as: we're pretty sure the FIRST mary ann wright is the correct mother, as that marriage takes place just before Walter is born. Walter's mum is def mary ann wright, but I am going to need the second marriage certificate to try and work out if the second mary ann and the first are the same woman as I suspect. I'm also fairly certain the Mary Ann Shenton who dies in Hull is Mary Ann Wright, as although she is a good 15 years too young, she makes a habit of losing five years to her age each census. I need to track down Sarah's fate as well, come to think of it. I'll give this to Cave, he certainly isn't boring.

    Their descendents are a colourful bunch, too!

  10. #10
    Name well known on Brit-Gen janbooth's Avatar
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    Could this be Sarah's burial record (source Notts FHS Burial Index):

    23 February 1875 at Nottingham St Mary Sarah SHENTON, aged 53, Coalpit Lane

    Correct area and age, using previous census records as parameters, so a distinct possibility.

    Janet
    Impatience can be a virtue - honestly!

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