Longland / Simpson to South Africa ship name?

[Longies]

Morning all,

I am looking for a confirmed ship name and date on which a John Spencer Longland (born 1826) and Dr William Simpson (born 1809) emigrated from UK to South Africa. Story has it that both these gentlemen were on the same ship, as they were friends. With data at my disposal, I am pretty sure that they arrived in Cape Town (Cape of Good Hope) during November 1849 (Dr William Simpson's last child was born on the ship). Passenger lists of the Eclipse and the Duke of Bedford, which both arrived during Nov / Dec 1849 alternatively show nothing. However - the story as told from grand parents, has it that the two families sailed on a ship called the SS Elephanta. And I cannot find any info on this ship at all.

Can anybody please assist, as I want to confirm the date the Longland family set foot on South African soil - as is during November 1849, but requested data will confirm.

Thanks all.

Johan Longland
Centurion
South Africa

[Coromandel]

Hi there Johan and welcome to the forum!

According to https:// gallery.ancestry24.com/v/Photographs/People/Simpson_+William.jpg.html, the youngest Simpson was born on the 'Eclipse', on which her father was Surgeon Superintendent.

[Coromandel]

I see there's been some discussion of the 'Eclipse' before on Brit-Gen: see this thread. See in particular post #71 (on page 8), where Sue Mackay explains where to find the 1849 passenger list.

[Sue Mackay]

However - the story as told from grand parents, has it that the two families sailed on a ship called the SS Elephanta. And I cannot find any info on this ship at all.

Arrivals of ships at the Cape at this time were often noted in the Shipping Intelligence columns of newspapers such as the South African Commercial Advertiser, but very rarely listed ordinary passengers. The appendix of Esme Bull's book 'Aided Immigration Britain to South Africa 1857-1867' does list the names appearing on lists for 1846-1851, but the only ships included are the the Susan (1846), the Scotia (1848), the Coromandel (1848), the Tory (1849), the Eclipse (1849), the Duke of Bedford (1849), the Glentammer (1850), the Dalhousie (1850), the Zenobia (1850), the Collingwood (1850) and the Diadem (1851). Your ancestors are not listed.

According to Esme Bull "the ships for which no lists are available were chartered by the Bounty Agents John Marshall and Co", although I can see no mention of the Elephanta. It may be that there is some mention of the ships in correspondence between the Colonial Office and the Bounty Agents at Kew, but such correspondence as I have seen connected with the slightly later Byrne settlers does not include passenger lists.

I looked up "Elephanta" in the British Library 19th century newspaper database for the year 1849 and came across the following entry, but there may well have been two ships with the same or similar name.

Caledonian Mercury April 23 1849
Shipping Intelligence (From Lloyd's List)
Hull: April 19. The Elephanta, Sorelson, from London to Nyborg, drove on shore at Grainsthorpe on 17th inst. and is a total wreck: crew saved.

You might want to do some digging in Lloyds Register of Shipping to see if you can find proof that the Elephanta could have been at the Cape at the right time.

[Longies]

Morning Coromandel and Sue,

Thanks for the interest shown and the quick response.

The photograph with info at the link provided, ties in 100% with the date and is up to now, the best confirmation I have (together with the birth date I knew of the last child of Dr Simpson). So I think I can say as a confirmed fact that the date of arrival in SA of the Longlands is November 1849.

Just 2 questions though (!) :

1) On two sites (https://www.genealogyworld.net/ellen/...%20Sea%201.htm) and (https://www.sagenealogy.co.za/Eclipse.htm) none of the names of Dr Simpson or John Longland is listed. According to my calculations (number of passengers versus names), I can see that not all passengers are listed. So I assume that for some (unknown) reason, their names are not on the passenger list. Some ideas here?

2) On the first site mentioned above (genealogyworld.net), the surgeon on the Eclipse is actually listed as a person with the name of Sanger. What could be the reason for listing Sanger and not Simpson or both? Was it maybe that Dr Simpson (who was a doctor), was firstly a passenger, as he emigrated with family - and as a "second priority" he assisted the "official" doctor on the Eclipse? Or is the records on the website just incorrect?

I know there is another reference in Esme Bull's book.

From "Aided Immigration from Britain to South Africa" by Esmè Bull
On Page 58:

The Colonial Medical Committee investigated charges of neglect against Dr
Simpson of the Eclipse, but pronounced them unfounded except in one case and
considered an official enquiry unnecessary. ref 47

So again this "falls nice into place" with some data.

Just the abovementioned 2 questions that still bothers me

Thanks again to both - would like to get your opinion on the 2 questions please.

Greetings.

Johan

[helachau]

If the pair were on board the Elephanta on its 1849 voyage it was not without incident!!

The Times Monday Feb 11th 1850
A PIRATE IN THE SOUTH ATLANTIC - the following report of the bark Elephanta contains most important information which we hasten to place before the public. The Elephanta, of 840 tons, W Cocks Master, left Liverpool on the 18 July and arrived in this port on the 7th inst.....
Postscript of the Cape of Good Hope Shipping and Mercantile Gazette Nov 9, 1849

Can provide a copy of the newspaper report if required - but no names are mentioned.

There are also a couple of newspaper references in 1900 to a John Spencer Longland and the Boer War.

[Sue Mackay]

Gosh Johan, I'm blind!

The link you gave to the information on genealogyworld is taken from a register of births and deaths of emigrants at sea (National Archives CO386/170), which does not contain a complete passenger list of the Eclipse as far as I know.

Annexure 3 of Esme Bull's book alluded to above does list the passengers on the Eclipse taken from the Government Gazette (GH23/19) but mixes them up in an alphabetical list of other ships between 1846-1851. I looked at this list for Simpson and Longland and told you they were not listed. However, I have just looked at the introduction to the Annexure, where it lists the ships, and see that for the Eclipse it gives the arrival date of 27 November and lists the ship's surgeon as W. Simpson! Sorry!
It may well be that something happened to the first surgeon on the voyage and Dr. Simpson took over.

[Longies]

Hello Sue and Helachau

Thanks Sue for the confirmation now on Dr Simpson being the surgeon on the Eclipse. This places a 200% (!) confirmed time stamp on the arrival of the Longland family in South Africa.

Helachau, thanks for your input as well. Out of interest and also by now I have learnt one should follow up all leads, it will be interesting to get a copy of the newspaper report you have written about (the Elephanta). Perhaps a Longland was a pirate on the ship

If it is in electronic format, I would like a copy please. Otherwise it would not be necessary to go to any trouble.

Thanks again to both for interest shown and assistance provided.

Greetings.

Johan

[Longies]

Hello Sue,

Sorry to bother again - but every now and again some questions come up!

As already said, the story was told from generation to generation that John Longland and Dr Simpson were on the same ship. While one should probably believe it(?) as it was told, there is at least one "story" (in this case) which has been proved to be false (detail not relevant to be told in this thread). So playing "devil's advocate", I ask the question: "But what proof is there that John Longland actually traveled with Dr Simpson"?

With all facts available, it is accepted that Dr Simpson arrived in SA on board the Eclipse on 27 November 1849 - no arguing this fact. ASSUMING the story that John Longland traveled with Dr Simpson, then I can deduce that John Longland arrived in SA on 27 Nov 1849. But - where are the facts?

I noticed in the list of names in Esme Bull's book as I got it on the Internet (https://www.genealogyworld.net/immigr...migration.html), there is a LINGLAND listed as:
3318 LINGLAND(LONGLAND) 688 British Settlers 1848-1851.

As I understand 3318 is merely a sequence number and 688 is the page number in the book, where LINGLAND (LONGLAND) is mentioned. Does this page 688 contain the passenger list of a ship?
What is the meaning of "The British Settlers 1848-1851"? Probably, that LINGLAND(LONGLAND) arrived between 1848 and 1851 (both years inclusive)?
Can this date be narrowed down based on the information on page 688 or not? For example to 1849, or even November 1849?


In post 7 of this thread, you said that you could not find Longland or Simpson. What is the LINGLAND(LONGLAND) I just mentioned then and where does these names fit into the "bigger picture" of the whole British Immigration "effort" or "project"?

Thanks for your time.

Johan

[Sue Mackay]

Hi Johan

Sorry, I did look under LONGLAND but failed to notice the LINGLAND (LONGLAND) entry a few lines above it. Must try harder

The entry is contained in Annexure 3 at the end of the book. The main body of the book deals with aided immigration 1857-1867, but the annexures list additional less complete passenger lists gleaned mainly from the Government Gazette.

The entry you want is for John Lingland (Longland) + wife and child (no further details listed) and they sailed on the Susan, which arrived on 27 January 1846. The references given for the Susan (I am presuming at Cape Archives) are as follows:
CO544, GG, ZP1/1/151 48/259 (list), GG23/28