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  1. #11
    lcov
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    Oh that makes sense about Kezia Mary Ann Rosina! Thanks for that Brien.

    Would really love to know where the Gagettes did originate from - wonder if we will ever find out! I looked at Huguenot sites a while ago but Gagette does not appear to be a H'not name. The Quebec Gagettes all seem to have french sounding christian names, although does'nt seem to be a connection to our Gagettes.
    Going back to the Italian theory, I was told by my Mother that there was Italian ancestry in her family and Quisha (the person who started this thread) heard the same thing through her family, and another person that I exchanged Gagette info with a while ago told me that she had always been told her Gagettes were Italian. And the way Philip James and (his sister?) Kezia's surname was often spelt Gagettee makes the pronounciation sound Italian.
    Do let me know I you find out anything in the future.

  2. #12
    brien
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    Hi,
    If you look up Gagette or Gaget or gagettee as an Italian name I get nothing. However if you look up Pagette or Pagett you find a source of the name in Piedmont Italy. I have also seen my family spelt Pagette in London 1881 English census, George Pagette born 1841 married Ann Pagette Bethnal Green. If Gagette is a variation of Pagette it would make it a French name of a family which fleed France for refuge in Piedmont, or fleed Haut Savoie for sanctuary in Italian Savoy, and latter fleed Savoy to escape the Napoleonic Wars. It remains just a theory but it fits family folk lore and the names which are known to exist. It would suggest they were Waldensian's rather than Huguetnots. I will pursue the theory but what we need is some evidence. Regards all Brien.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by brien View Post
    I have also seen my family spelt Pagette in London 1881 English census, George Pagette born 1841 married Ann Pagette Bethnal Green.
    Looking at the 1881 image (RG11/418 folio 26 page 8), rather than the index ...



    ... compare the G at the start of George with the first letter of the surname?

    An extract from following page (folio 27 page 9) shows that this enumerator's capital Ps and Gs are very different (Poplar and Bethnal Green).



    With all due respect, I think the surname is actually written GAGETTE in this 1881 example.

    I appreciate you may have other examples of PAGETTE elsewhere. But you might want to consider whether, in this instance, PAGETTE is a mistranscription by 1881 indexers, rather than a true variant of the name?

    (census records held by TNA, Crown copyright)

  4. #14
    brien
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    Hi,
    I agree it is a mispelling. It is just that there are so many misspellings and changes of spelling. Gagette, Gagatte, Gagettee, that I wonder if another spelling would be more fruitful but what I really need is the name of the father of Phillip James Gagette. My thinking is that this name doesn't exist in French census records, but Gaget, Gagat or Pagett do. The only name I can find in Italy is Pagett or Pagetto. There is no way of knowing without the records, but I find it interesting.

    Regards all Brien

  5. #15
    Qisha
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    Sorry but I live out in the sticks in very rural France, so I rarely get to the internet, which is quite frustrating considering the info that is being exchanged. Anyway, yesterday I received a letter from my mother's cousin, Maureen, with quite a bit of Gagette info that I will need to sort out before posting. One thing is certain though, in the family, the Gagettes have always proudly been referred to as having Italian ancestry, not French; although they did flee France during either the French Revolution (as I have always understood it) or the Napoleonic invasions? Evidently, when they fled, they caught a ship from Marseille to Bristol. Just offhand, without referencing, I think my great-grandmother was Eliza Priscilla Meers and her mother was surnamed Gagette - will advise sometime later.
    Just over two months ago my elderly father handed me a stack of research details on family history he collected over a twenty year period, so I am sorting through this as well; Please be patient therefore and thanks for all the detailed info.

  6. #16
    lcov
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    Thats great news Qisha. I hit a brick wall with the Gagettes ages ago so I am excited to see what you have.

    Brien, I came across another Gagette (mis)spelling. Herbert James Gagettes birth registration (he is great grandson of Philip James) in Bethnal Green 1883 -spelt Gaggetti although all subsequent records for him (census 1891,1901 & 1911, marriage and death) he is spelt Gagette, so probs a mistake on the registrars part. Also another ggrandson Frederick (b.1878) spelt his name Gagetti on the 1911 census but is Gagette on his birth record.
    I have a birth certificate for one of Kezia Gagette(e)'s sons and her maiden name on it is spelt Gagetty.

  7. #17
    Qisha
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    Default My Ifno - at last

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerrywood View Post
    Hi, and welcome to the forums!

    If you can post more details about your GAGETTE family (first names, dates etc.), tell us what you already know, and exactly what you're looking for, it will be easier for members to help you.

    Also, just out of interest, how sure are you that they were Italian? Bethnal Green is better known for French (originally Huguenot) families than for Italian ones.
    My mother often quoted that her grandmother (Eliza Priscilla Meers, 1868-1968) told her that one, or both, of her (Eliza Priscilla Meers's) great-grandparents came to England from the French Italian border area, during the French Revolution.
    According to information I now have, Eliza Priscilla Meers's mother was Eliza Meers, nee Gagettee (born 1836). In turn, Eliza Gagette's father was Phillip James Gagette (born 1812) who married Ann Brien on 6th September 1832 at St. Matthew's Bethnal Green; therefore they were Eliza Priscilla Meers's grandparents. In proximate years, three other Gagettees, all female, were married at St. Matthew's Bethnal Green; Mary Ann Gagettee married John Matthews on 26th November 1832; Kezia Gagettee married Richard Crouch Bloxham on 30th April 1836, witnessed by Phillip James Gagettee; and Elizabeth Gagettee married John Shore on 24th February 1835. Elizabeth Gagettee was christened at St. Matthew's Bethnal Green, on 16th April 1809, having been born to Sarte Gagette and Ann ?. So, by simple deduction, it is assumed that she and the three others, Phillip James, Mary Ann and Kezia, were all children born to Sarte and Ann, who would be Eliza Priscilla Meers's great-grandparents.
    A possibility arise here because, on 22nd October 1802, at St Botolph, Bishopsgate, a scribe recorded that 'Sante (or Santa) Gegeto' married 'Ann Haynes'; she signed with a cross next to her name, but her husband signed his own name, and his signature looks something like 'Santa Gageto'. The wedding was witnessed by Bernado Commanati. Taking an average age of 25 for marrying, then Sante must have arrived in England while still a child, or at least a teenager. Looking at 20th century refugees, they tended to arrive at their destinations in boatloads, so I presume it must have been the same then. So there must be some records of boats arriving from Marseille with Italian refugees from near the French border.
    Hope this is a bit of a breakthrough,
    Regards

  8. #18
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    Thanks for coming back to post the information.

    I've found a few of the events in the parish registers. It sounds like you have most, if not all of these. But I'll post them anyway, for others to see and (hopefully) add to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qisha View Post
    Eliza Priscilla Meers's mother was Eliza Meers, nee Gagettee
    St Matthias Bethnal Green
    Baptisms
    8 Nov 1868
    Eliza Priscilla, d. of George & Eliza Mears, 76 Ingerfield? Road, Shoe Maker
    Born 16 Oct 1868

    Also a brother George Philip, born 14 May 1865, baptised 4 June at the same church.

    Presumably you (or someone) has this birth certificate, with the mother's maiden name?

    Births
    Dec Qtr 1868
    MEARS Eliza Priscilla
    Bethnal Green vol 1c page 256

    St Peter Bethnal Green
    Marriage
    20 Sep 1863
    George Meers, full age, bachelor, cordwainer, 38 Turk Street. Father - Deceased (no occ)
    Eliza Gagette, full age, spinster, tassel maker, 13 King Street. Father - Philip Gagette, paper hanger
    After banns, he signed, she marked
    Witnesses - Philip James Gagette, Anne? Gagette

    Quote Originally Posted by Qisha View Post
    Eliza Gagette's father was Phillip James Gagette (born 1812) ...
    St Matthias Bethnal Green
    Baptisms
    18 Jan 1849
    Eliza, d. of Philip & Ann Gagetté, 5 Turk St, Bricklayer
    Born 3 Feb 1838
    and (same day)
    Philip, s. of Philip & Ann Gagetté, 5 Turk St, Bricklayer
    Born 23 Feb 1834

    Quote Originally Posted by Qisha View Post
    ... Phillip James Gagette (born 1812) who married Ann Brien on 6th September 1832 at St. Matthew's Bethnal Green
    St Matthew Bethnal Green
    Marriage
    6 Sep 1832
    Philip James Gagettee, bachelor, of this parish
    Ann Brien, spinster, of this parish
    After banns, both signed
    Witnesses - Charles Jeffkins, Susannah Jeffkins

    Quote Originally Posted by Qisha View Post
    Mary Ann Gagettee married John Matthews on 26th November 1832
    According to the parish records, banns were read first at St Dunstan Stepney in 1826. The marriage at St Matthew Bethnal Green was 26 Nov 1833.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qisha View Post
    Elizabeth Gagettee married John Shore on 24th February 1835
    ...witnessed by Mary Ann MATTHEWS (presumably Elizabeth's sister) and Samuel AMES (the parish clerk)

    Quote Originally Posted by Qisha View Post
    Kezia Gagettee married Richard Crouch Bloxham on 30th April 1836, witnessed by Phillip James Gagettee ...
    ... and Ann GILBERT (who made her mark)

    Quote Originally Posted by Qisha View Post
    Elizabeth Gagettee was christened at St. Matthew's Bethnal Green, on 16th April 1809, having been born to Sarte Gagette and Ann ?.
    St Matthew Bethnal Green
    Baptism
    16 Apr 1809
    Elizabeth, d. of Sarte & Ann Gagette
    Born 30 Dec 1808

    Quote Originally Posted by Qisha View Post
    it is assumed that she and the three others, Phillip James, Mary Ann and Kezia, were all children born to Sarte and Ann
    That sounds feasible, but it would be good to find the baptisms.

    This looks like one of them ...

    St Leonard Shoreditch
    Baptism
    19 Jan 1812
    Philip James, s. of John & Ann Gay Jatty of Church End
    Born 21 July

    So are John and Sarte/Santo the same person?

    Quote Originally Posted by Qisha View Post
    on 22nd October 1802, at St Botolph, Bishopsgate, a scribe recorded that 'Sante (or Santa) Gegeto' married 'Ann Haynes'; she signed with a cross next to her name, but her husband signed his own name, and his signature looks something like 'Santa Gageto'. The wedding was witnessed by Bernado Commanati.
    Possible reading ... but perhaps others with access might also look?

    St Botolph Bishopsgate
    Marriage
    22 Oct 1802
    Santo Gegeto, bachelor, of this parish
    Ann Haynes, spinster, of this parish
    After banns, he signed (Santo Gageto), she marked
    Witnesses - Barnardo Cermenati?, M. Ann Godfrey, John Cutler

    I'm sure there will be more entries to find, hiding under mistranscriptions.

    You might want to note that St Matthew and St Matthias are different parishes, both in Bethnal Green.


    To be continued ...

  9. #19
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    Continuing from above ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Qisha View Post
    So there must be some records of boats arriving from Marseille with Italian refugees from near the French border.
    Unfortunately, I don't think so. There are no surviving immigration records before about 1810. You might want to have a look at this research guide for a summary of what survives at the National Archives.

    Also perhaps look at this research guide, about Naturalisation, which may also be a possibility.

    In addition, the 1793 Aliens Act required householders to make returns to the authorities listing any aliens living in their property. A very few such returns survive at county record offices. Those for Middlesex are at the London Metropolitan Archives (series MR/A - Notification of Foreign Aliens, 1790-1810) and described in their online catalogue, which you can search and browse here. Enter the Reference Code MR/A (leaving the Search box empty), and drill down through the series to browse the descriptions of individual items.

    When I tried, I found nothing remotely like GAGETTE, but you may want to have a go yourself. To be honest, though, there are relatively few surviving returns of aliens, considering the large number of immigrants who were probably in London at that period.

    As a longer-term research project, if you have access to the pay/subscription site Ancestry, you could read some of the Home Office correspondence in the UK, Aliens Entry Books, 1794-1921 (HO 5), on the offchance that the surname might be a mentioned there. These records are not indexed, so you can't search. You just have to read through page-by-page.

    Let's hope other members will have more suggestions.

  10. #20
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    Here's another baptism ...

    St Leonard Shoreditch
    Baptism
    23 March 1806
    James, s. of Santo & Ann Jetty of Holywell Lane
    Born 6 November

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