Death John LORIMER c 1860ish in North Riding

[Geoffers]

1. To be honest, I can't even remember where I found the marriage of John Lorimer and Isobel Bushby! So I can't add much to that.

In your shoes, finding the original entry would be a priority. The extra detail that you might find could help your research. Parents are not specifically required to be recorded in register entries from this date in England; but look for whether a marriage was by banns/licence, also who were the witnesses and what information is recorded against groom and bride, e.g. single/widowed and where they were from (not always accurately recorded).

I know they are Thomas' parents because they are on his death certificate. As is the fact that Thomas was stated as being born in Yorkshire on his death cert.

Do note that English certificates do not contain the same detail as Scottish entries. A death certificate in England will not necessarily show the name of any relatives.

Records which do/may show a connection between generations include: baptisms, marriages, wills, transfers of land, memorial inscriptions, correspondenc, etc.

(Wills are organised in a way which may seem complicated - have a read of this sticky thread )

3. I actually have a lead on John's parents, as a Matthew Lorimer and Mary Bell in Dumfries, but until I find John's death details listing his parents

As mentioned, if John died in England, don't expect his parents to be named.

I am beginning to think that I am just going to have to throw caution (and way too much money) to the wind, and purchase all the John Lorimer wills I can find. Yikes! Didn't want to do it.

I don't think you'll have to do that - you can certainly direct your research towards the more likely matches which have a connection

While I have you, can you tell me how to get access to the 1841 and 1861 census of England and Scotland?

Scottish census returns are available via the site Scotlands People - scotlandspeople.gov.uk

English census returns are available on many pay-per-view sites - findmypast, thegenealogist, 1901censusonline, ancestry - there is also a project to make free transcriptions available via 'freereg', though note these are transcriptions and the site is an ongoing project with variable coverage between areas.

[pwholt]

A word of caution about the validity of death certificate information - it can be wrong. Just the other day, I was checking some online information, and for 5 deaths and marriages checked, I found at least one error in each. The oddest was where the man's mother's name recorded was actually his grandmother, whose maiden name was last found mentioned at her marriage! (She died young.) NB This was not an English death certificate. Unfortunately they don't record such detail. pw

[grisel]

Freecen has a couple of Lorimer households of possible interest in 1841.

In Kircudbrightshire at Auchreoch, Balmaclellan
John Lorimer, farmer age 70 b outside county, Isabella 70 b outside county. Margaret Lorimer 25 b Kircudbrightshire plus 2 servants

and in Dumfriesshire at Rockhall Mains, Mouswald
Thomas Lorimer,farmer b England 45, John, 12, James 10 plus 4 servants

[grisel]

I think, from the index, Thomas may be in Liverpool in 1861, West Derby registration district.

[grisel]

Googling, came on a site headed John LORIMER/ Isobel BUSHBY which you may have seen. A huge tree with a long list of Lorimers. This person has your John born in Dumfriesshire abt 1771 with a father also named John from Mouswald b abt 1746. But does have Catherine Wilkin as a wife to son Thomas and also a Catherine Wilkin as a wife to father John which seems a bit suspect (tho does state that data not necessarily accurate).

[AnnieBailey]

Geoffers, thanks so much for all this help! I really must try to find out where I found the marriage of John and Isobel. I have an exact date, so I must have found an actual record somewhere lol. I am not very good at keeping records of where I have been. I just went on to Scotlands people again last night and realised from my previous searches, that I have been looking for John Lorimer since 2003!! I wonder if I might give up soon lol.
Many thanks Geoffers from Annie

[AnnieBailey]

Hi Grisel, about this one;

In Kircudbrightshire at Auchreoch, Balmaclellan
John Lorimer, farmer age 70 b outside county, Isabella 70 b outside county. Margaret Lorimer 25 b Kircudbrightshire plus 2 servants.

I agree it looks promising, but I have no Margaret in my info, not impossible tho. I will have to sit down with a map and see where this is, because it is new to my area of finds.

As for this one;

and in Dumfriesshire at Rockhall Mains, Mouswald
Thomas Lorimer,farmer b England 45, John, 12, James 10 plus 4 servants

This is definatley mine. This is Thomas Lorimer who married Catharine Wilkin, (and later Mary Hill). He moved to Nether Locharwoods eventually and the 10 year old James is my gggrandfather who came to Australia in 1853.

Actually, that record, did you happen to notice if there was an older John Lorimer as well?

[Kerrywood]

I really must try to find out where I found the marriage of John and Isobel. I have an exact date, so I must have found an actual record somewhere

The marriage is indexed on the IGI.

The parish registers for Catterick are at the North Yorkshire County Record Office at Northallerton. They should be able to send you a printout of the entry in the marriage register, so that you can see if any further information is given.

[AnnieBailey]

Hi Grisel,
what was the address of this site you stumbled upon, I don't think I have seen it?

[AnnieBailey]

Hi Kerrywood! You are are life saver! Many thanks from Annie