James TIMMS and Caroline EDDEN (or EDEN)

[valg]

Well the usually easiest way to find a mothers surname is to track down a birth cert for one of the children1 In this case not to easy but there is a James noted on the 1861 census as 6 mths, this would make a birth around Oct 1860-
2 births in the Dec births which would incorporate a Oct birth..phew
James Timms-Dec Births-Birmingham-6d-200
James Timms-Dec births-Warwick-6d-499 This is my pick as Warwick takes in Leamington prior

Sorry of course I meant Thomas...think I need a coffee!!!
Thomas Timms-Warwick 6d 449 -Dec births.1860

[1224855]

Yes, I've ordered that one, and also the marriage cert for the marriage that Nicolina found. I've found a marriage for their daughter Elizabeth (she reported James death as Elizabeth Burman and I've found the marriage in the registers). E. Bissell, daughter, reported Caroline's death - I wonder if this could be Emily... I'm searching...

[Nicolina]

there is a possible marriage:
June 1874 Warwick 6d 811
between Emily TIMMS and Edward Henry BISSELL

[valg]

Thomas married Emma Cooper in Warwick in 1880.

[valg]

Hi Valg, I've got death certs for James and Caroline at Kenilworth Street (they continued to live there, and both died there), James in 1879 aged 67 and Caroline in 1896 aged 77. So that makes james born around 1813 and Caroline around 1819.

James Furnival Timms
Baptised 21 Jan 1814 St Michaels Coventry Warwick-parents John Timms Martha Furnival.
Not to far from Radford.

[1224855]

Thanks again Nicolina and Valg. i think I need to wait now until the marriage and birth certs arrive (couple of weeks usually) before I can start picking through all the information you have found. I wonder whether Mary A from the 61 census could be Amy from the baptism you found Valg? I had a look for a birth that might suggest that, but didn't come up with one.

Now its the long wait for the certs to arrive. I'll post again when I find out anything.

Lesley

[1224855]

Thanks to everyone who has taken an interest in this brick wall so far. Here I am again with new certificates to hand. James Timms and Caroline Eden were married on 30 December 1860 in the Parish of St Nicholas, Warwick, after banns. He is shown as bachelor aged 48, she as spinster aged 42. His father was William Timms (deceased), laborer, and hers was Thomas Eden, deceased, labourer.

Caroline's name might have been Edden, as on the birth cert of their son Thomas in October 1860 she is shown as formerly 'Edden' and there is a christening for Caroline Edden on 20 December 1818 in Tredington, Warwick, parents Thomas and Elizabeth Edden.

James seems to be the son of William and Sarah Tims (note difference in spelling) christened on 12 july 1812 in Radford Semele, Warwick.

So now it is a matter of establishing whether James and Caroline just lived together before their marriage, and that the other children (including John, who is the birth I'm looking for) are children of them both, or whether either brought children into the relationship. The question is whether James was in fact the father of John, and if so who was his mother, Caroline or someone else?

I've done some searching in the census records but can't find Caroline or her parents before 1860 and I still can't find James before their wedding either.

The censuses aren't helping at all, and I'm not sure where to turn now to try to solve the mystery. If anyone has any thoughts, please let me know!

[1224855]

I've tried in vain to find this family in the 1851 census. The head, James, is my gg grandfather, John is my g grandfather. In 1861 they are in Leamington Priors as follows:

James Timms, head, 48, bricklayer, b Warwickshire, Radford
Caroline Timms, wife, 42,b Warwickshire, Newbold
John, son, 19, bricklayer b.Shipton
James, son, 13 Labourer bricklayer, b.Shipton
Emeley, dau, 12, b. leamington
Mary A, dau, 9, scholar, b.leamington
Elizabeth, dau, 6 scholar, b.leamington
william, son, 4, scholar, b.leamington
Thomas, son, 6mo, b.leamington

This couple married in Dec 1860. Caroline's name was "Edden" or "Eden" and her father was Thomas, labourer. I haven't been able to track births yet for the family. I've had some help from the Brick Wall forum, but I'm still chasing detail. It might be that the couple weren't together in 1851, and that James was married to someone else, but again, I'm having trouble pinning anything down.

If anyone can do clever searches and come up with this family, or bits of it, in 1851, I'd be delighted!

Thanks

Lesley (New Zealand)

[Peter Goodey]

I think you would be best off getting some more BMD certificates. I would start with the birth of Thomas TIMMS who may be the cause rather than the effect of the marriage

[janbooth]

Hi Lesley,

There is a birth registration of an Emily EDDEN in the Dec qtr 1848 at Warwick reg district - perhaps a possibility for the Emily TIMMS in the 1861 census. A Mary Ann EDDEN's birth was registered in the September qtr 1851 at Warwick, Elizabeth TIMS registered in March qtr 1855 at Warwick and a William TIMS in March qtr 1857 at Warwick. Also a birth registration for a John William TIMBS in the September qtr 1841 at Evesham reg district.

However, finding both families in the census records prior to 1861 is another matter!

Janet