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  1. #11
    janbooth
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    Hi Bernie,

    It looks as if your Silvester jnr had at least one sister, Mary. From Ancestry's London Parish Registers:

    8 July 1847 at St George Bloomsbury Frederick Hale HOLMES, full age, bachelor, Chemist, 15 Alfred Street, father George HOLMES, Attorney married Mary FULLER, full age, widow, 15 Alfred Street, father Silvester DONNELLY, Mate in the East India Company Service. Witnesses: Sophia PATTENDEN & Henengen CATT........... Both Frederick & Mary signed their names.

    The 1851 census of St Giles in the Fields (HO107/1509, folio , page 15 shows Frederick & Mary as follows:

    15 Alfred Street

    Frederic HOLMES Head Mar 40 Professor of Natural Philosophy Middlesex London
    Mary do Wife Mar 48 Household Duties do do
    George DONNELLY Nephew U 9 Scholar Ireland Kerry
    Ann KELLY Servant U 22 Ireland

    Janet

  2. #12
    Bertie
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    What info do you have on Sylvester (c1809) birth / baptism: esp. date /location. I would ask your researcher to provide you with a copy of what he found (I'm surprised he did not provide it). Some interesting avenues: researcher in Hampshire - Sylvester born there? (an obvious naval connection makes it v. plausible). With name and one son an RC Priest - I assume family therefore catholic and Irish, which could indicate birth in Ireland, and/or baptism in RC church in the UK (if the latter, IGI / Familysearch is unlikely to have the record, so you would need to look at RC parish records individually). Do you have the marriage cert - what denimination was the marriage in?

    What information do the censuses give for year / location of birth?

    I feel your best bet is to establish Sylvester c1809 first

  3. #13
    janbooth
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    Snap Adele - you beat me to it. 1841 census of Finsbury, Clerkenwell shows Sylvester jnr as follows:

    HO107/659/10, folio 54, page 11
    Cold Bath Square

    Sylvester DONNELLY 30 Map Engraver
    Elizabeth do 30
    Sylvester do 6
    Francis do 4
    Miles do 2

    All born in the county.

    Rev Sylvester Aloysius DONNELLY appears on the National Probate Calendar. He died on 24 December 1903 and was of Gove Villa, Haywards Heath, Sussex. Probate was granted at Lewes on 19 January 1904 to Rev. Frederick HOPPER, Clerk. Effects £2046 18s 1d.

    Janet

  4. #14
    janbooth
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    Default Sylvester DONNELLY

    It also appears that Sylvester jnr married again in the Jan qtr 1851 at St Giles in the Fields reg district to an Ellen O'LEARY. Confirmed by the 1851 census of Holborn St Andrew:

    HO107/1527, folio 98, page 74
    9 Castle Street

    Sylvester DONNELLY Head Mar 41 Engraver Southwark
    Elen do Wife Mar 40 do
    Francis do Son Un 14 Solicitor's Clerk St Giles
    Miles do Son 12 School St Pancras
    William do Son 4 At home St Andrew
    Arthur BUTTON Ap Un 24 Copper Plate Printer St Giles
    Mary FLEMING Serv Un 25 House Serv Ireland

    In the 1861 census Sylvester & Ellen are still at 9 Castle Street living with children Francis aged 22 a Brass Finisher, George aged 20 a Lithographer, William aged 14 a Scholar and Mary aged 9 also a Scholar.

    Janet

  5. #15
    BernieFD
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    Bertie , thank you for your reply.
    I dont have any more info on the birth of Silvester born 1809. I can't contact my researcher any more and the info I did get from him was way back in the early to mid 1900s. I have not done any more research on this until now.
    I am hoping that someone out there can get the details of the marriage of Silvester's parents, Silvester snr and Julia Ann Mc Kenna possibly circa 1800/ 1805 as this may give details of their age and maybe place of marriage.
    Brernie.

  6. #16
    BernieFD
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    Janet, thank you for your replies.
    I know Silvester remarried and have these details and also have a copy of the will of Silvester , the priest, but none of this information can help me to get any earlier information about Silvesters's earlier ancestors except that his parents were Silvester snr and Julia Ann McKenna married maybe circa 1800/1805 and I am hoping that I can get some details about their parents etc.
    Would the details of this marriage be available as this could give a starting point for further research.
    Bernie

  7. #17
    BernieFD
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    Janet,
    I am very new to this research and only started yesterday. I am amazed in the interest shown from my initial post and all the replies I have received so far. I have tried to reply to posters with as much information as I can. A lot of the information I have used in my replies is somewhat dated now, a lot of it is from my very old family history records I recorded many years ago and from memory. I have not done any research on this family for about 15 years.
    If Silvester jnr (born 1809 ) had a sister Mary and the 1851 census and shows her as a widow age 48 she would have been born circa 1803..
    Is it possible to locate her first marriage, I guess to a Fuller.Would this show details of her parents, who I guess would be Silvester snr and Julia McKenna.
    Could Silvester and Julia's marriage be located as this would help me to go back.
    The nephew George you mention is possibly the son of Silvester jnr my Gt.Gt Grandfather born 1809, one of his 5 sons.You mention Kerry, Ireland in relation to George . But I have him born in Middlesex .Bernie.

  8. #18
    BernieFD
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    AdeleE,
    Thank you for your reply.
    I received similar information in your post from another post to which I have replied earlier..
    I am confused about George being born in Ireland as from his age 9 I think he may be the son of Silvester jnr, one of the 5 sons he had including my Gt. Grandfather Francis. I have George born in Clerkenwell,Middlesex 13 June 1841. George died in Islington in 1897.
    Could the Silvester, Mate in the East India Company, be my Gt. Gt. Gt Grandfather, which is the one I am trying to find and may be the Navy steward mentioned on my initial post.
    Bernie.

  9. #19
    Brick wall demolition expert!
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    Quote Originally Posted by BernieFD View Post
    AdeleE,
    I am confused about George being born in Ireland as from his age 9 I think he may be the son of Silvester jnr, one of the 5 sons he had including my Gt. Grandfather Francis. I have George born in Clerkenwell,Middlesex 13 June 1841.
    Bernie.
    I too think that George, age 9, in the household of his paternal aunt and her second husband, is the son of Sylvester Donnelly, especially as he is not recorded in the 1851 census enumeration of the Sylvester Donnelly household.

    When trying to reconcile discrepancies in census or vital records, I always try to put myself in the place of the person who gave the information. In this case, it was probably Frederick Hale Holmes. He may have thought that he was giving the correct information, and didn't ask his wife. The recording of Kerry, Ireland as a place of birth for George may be a valuable clue into the origins of earlier generations of the Donnelly family.

  10. #20
    BernieFD
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    Adele, Thank you.
    I agree with you and am fairly sure that George was, as I thought, the son of Silvester jnr, and born in England. Maybe he was not born at the time the 1851 census was taken as he was born in June 1841, so if the census was earlier then he would not be there!!!
    I have always believed rightly or wrongly that the Donnelly lineage started in Ireland and if we can establish the details of the marriage of Silvester snr and Julia Ann McKenna we could go a long way to confirm this!!!
    In my post 18 to you ,I wondered if Silvester snr was the one connected to the East India Company, I searched that data base and he is not listed. Maybe he was a crew member on the ships dealing with the company!
    Lots of intriguing reseach to come yet. As I am very new to all this I don't really know where to look and really rely on help from the forum. Sylvester snr may have been born in Ireland and came to England. Maybe Kerry in Ireland could be a good starting point to see if Sylvester originated from there. Only a guess.!! I wonder where Julia Ann McKenna was born, if in England maybe they were married in England!!
    Bernie.

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