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  1. #1
    rogtut
    Guest

    Default Married at 11, surely not!

    According to the Scotland Census returns for 1861, 1871, 1881 and 1891 Mary Ann Ross MS Garden was born in Fochabers, Moray in 1837.

    As you know some Scottish birth records give the mother’s name and place and date of marriage. I noticed that the birth record for one of her 12 children (my great grandmother) showed her as being married on 11 June 1848 in New Machar, Aberdeen to James Ross of Dyke, Moray born in 1826. I assumed this was a mistake and viewed the birth records of 2 of her other children. To my surprise they had the same consistent information.

    To add to the mystery their first child James was not born until 1856 (according to the 1861 Census). I have not been able to trace the 1851 Census for either or preferably both together.

    Any thoughts?

  2. #2
    jac65
    Guest

    Default

    Hi

    In 1851 Mary Garden age 14 is home with her parents. Her birth place has been transcribed as Tochabers, Morayshire

    Andy

  3. #3
    Bertie
    Guest

    Default

    Is this the family?

    Name: James Ross
    Gender: Male
    Birth Date: 05 Sep 1856
    Birthplace: BATHGATE,WEST LOTHIAN,SCOTLAND
    Father's Name: James Ross
    Mother's Name: Mary Garden
    Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11662-1
    System Origin: Scotland-ODM
    Source Film Number: 6035516
    Collection: Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

    Name: Daniel Ross
    Gender: Male
    Birth Date: 21 Aug 1858
    Birthplace: BATHGATE,WEST LOTHIAN,SCOTLAND
    Father's Name: James Ross
    Mother's Name: Mary Garden
    Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11662-1
    System Origin: Scotland-ODM
    Source Film Number: 6035516
    Collection: Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

    Name: Mary Ann Sime Ross
    Gender: Female
    Birth Date: 18 Mar 1860
    Birthplace: BATHGATE,WEST LOTHIAN,SCOTLAND
    Father's Name: James Ross
    Mother's Name: Mary Garden
    Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11662-1
    System Origin: Scotland-ODM
    Source Film Number: 6035516
    Collection: Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

    Name: Alexander Ross
    Gender: Male
    Birth Date: 18 Mar 1862
    Birthplace: BATHGATE,WEST LOTHIAN,SCOTLAND
    Father's Name: James Ross
    Mother's Name: Mary Garden
    Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11662-1
    System Origin: Scotland-ODM
    Source Film Number: 6035516
    Collection: Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

    Name: Elizabeth Ross
    Gender: Female
    Birth Date: 02 Jul 1863
    Birthplace: BATHGATE,WEST LOTHIAN,SCOTLAND
    Father's Name: James Ross
    Mother's Name: Mary Garden
    Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11662-1
    System Origin: Scotland-ODM
    Source Film Number: 6035516
    Collection: Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

    Name: Helen Ross
    Gender: Female
    Birth Date: 02 Nov 1868
    Birthplace: KIRKLISTON,WEST LOTHIAN,SCOTLAND
    Father's Name: James Ross
    Mother's Name: Mary Garden
    Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11667-1
    System Origin: Scotland-ODM
    Source Film Number: 6035516
    Collection: Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

    Name: Robert Ross
    Gender: Male
    Birth Date: 26 May 1870
    Birthplace: KIRKLISTON,WEST LOTHIAN,SCOTLAND
    Father's Name: James Ross
    Mother's Name: Mary Garden
    Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11667-1
    System Origin: Scotland-ODM
    Source Film Number: 6035516
    Collection: Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

    Name: William Ross
    Gender: Male
    Birth Date: 02 Feb 1874
    Birthplace: KIRKLISTON,WEST LOTHIAN,SCOTLAND
    Father's Name: James Ross
    Mother's Name: Mary Garden
    Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11667-1
    System Origin: Scotland-ODM
    Source Film Number: 6035516
    Collection: Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

    I've had a look at FamilySearch and Scotlandspeople (OPRs and Statutory Register) for a marriage but cannot find one: do you know if they were non-con? That aside, the stated marriage date must surely be an error based on the 1851 census record.

    James' birth:
    Name: James Ross
    Gender: Male
    Baptism/Christening Date: 14 Jan 1826
    Baptism/Christening Place: DYKE,MORAY,SCOTLAND
    Birth Date: 01 Jan 1826
    Father's Name: William Ross
    Mother's Name: Elisabeth Sim
    Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11133-4
    System Origin: Scotland-ODM
    Source Film Number: 990796
    Collection: Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

    Notice the mother's maiden name - checks with daughter Mary Ann's birth record

    I can't find a birth / chr. record for Mary Ann

  4. #4
    rogtut
    Guest

    Default

    Thanks very much, Bertie and yes this is the family. I must day that I'm feeling just a little foolish at the moment as I hadn't realised that these records were available from LDS. I have used the LDS centre in London extensively over the past year to great effect but for some reason these records had passed me by. This microfiche is in London and I'll have a look at it later this week.

    I'm not sure about noncon but my mother's family are RC - her mother married a shale miner and son of a an Irish Catholic.

    Incidentally I have the death record for James Ross (aged 87 in 1913) and this shows his father as William Ross a journeyman joiner and his mother as Margaret Syme rather than Elizabeth?

    Thanks again.

    Roger J Tutton

  5. #5
    rogtut
    Guest

    Default

    I also have the death record for Mary Ann Ross MS Garden aged 54 in 1893. It shows her father as James Garden a Joiner Dec'd and her mother as Ann Syme (yes Syme) Dec'd.

  6. #6
    Bertie
    Guest

    Default

    Don't worry - happens to us all! Re. mother's name, it's not that uncommon for the informant to get it wrong! Re. James in 1851 is he one of these?

    Piece: SCT1851/131 Place: Duffus -Morayshire Enumeration District: 6
    Civil Parish: Duffus Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Duffus
    Folio: 103 Page: 20 Schedule: 85
    Address: Burghead



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
    JAFFREY Christian Head W F 51 Spinster Morayshire - Duffus
    ROSS James Lodger U M 25 Cooper Morayshire - Dyke

    OR

    Piece: SCT1851/133 Place: Dyke -Morayshire Enumeration District: 2
    Civil Parish: Dyke Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Dyke
    Folio: 111 Page: 6 Schedule: 32
    Address: Kintessack Village



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
    ROSS John Head U M 33 Mason Master Emp 3 Men Morayshire - Dyke
    ROSS Alexander Brothr U M 26 Mason Jman Morayshire - Dyke
    ROSS James Brothr U M 24 Mason Jman Morayshire - Dyke
    ROSS Frederick Brothr U M 20 Mason Jman Morayshire - Dyke
    MCGILLAVRAY Isabella Aunt U F 65 Housekeeper Morayshire - Dyke

    FreeCEN covers Moray in 1851

  7. #7
    Bertie
    Guest

    Default

    This is Mary's family in 1851:

    Piece: SCT1851/126 Place: Bellie -Morayshire Enumeration District: 2
    Civil Parish: Bellie Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Bellie
    Folio: 100 Page: 32 Schedule: 154
    Address: Burnside Of Fochabers



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
    GARDEN James Head M M 69 Cartwright Banffshire - Rathven
    GARDEN Mary Wife M F 45 Morayshire - Fochabers
    GARDEN William Son U M 21 Cartwright Morayshire - Fochabers
    GARDEN Mary Dau U F 14 Scholar Morayshire - Fochabers
    Page: 100/33 GARDEN John Son - M 13 Scholar Morayshire - Fochabers
    GARDEN Margaret Dau - F 11 Scholar Morayshire - Fochabers
    GARDEN Peter Son - M 9 Scholar Morayshire - Fochabers
    GARDEN Jane Dau - F 7 Scholar Morayshire - Fochabers
    GARDEN Robert Son - M 3 Morayshire - Fochabers

  8. #8
    Bertie
    Guest

    Default

    It looks like their parish is Bellie. The records can be found here:

    https://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....ntyMoray.htm#F

    Poss. marriage is James Garden and Mary Taylor 26 Jun 1824

    From looking at the records, it would seem that none of the children were baptised, but that's just a quick look.

  9. #9
    rogtut
    Guest

    Default

    Thanks again Bertie

    I can't find the births but I did find:
    James Garden
    Baptism/Christening Date: 10 Jun 1779
    RATHVEN,BANFF,SCOTLAND
    Fathe: John Garden
    System Origin: Scotland-ODM
    Source Film Number: 991192

    There is also a marriage in 1824 to a Mary Taylor.

  10. #10
    rogtut
    Guest

    Default

    We must have crossed on these. I've just been called for dinner! Catch up later.

    Roger

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