The not so Luffely John Luff of Somerset

[olliecat]

Anyone fancy having a go at my John Luff brick wall. Every time I look at him in my tree I feel sure he is up there somewhere having a belly laugh at my attempts to pin him down. I’ve been hesitating over whether to ask for help for a while but I now despair of him.

This is some of what I know about him.

• 1860: John Luff first appears out of the mists of Somerset when he marries a Mary James in Treforest, Wales. He is a widower and states his father is John Luff, deceased, collier.
  
  
• 1861: John is living in Llantwit Fardre with his wife Mary and children. Mary’s mother and brother are staying with them.
  RG9; Piece: 4044; Folio: 70; Page: 10; (crown copyright, care of the TNA)
  
  
• 1871: John is living in Ystradyfodwg with his wife Mary and children Catherine, Edward and Clara.
  RG10; Piece: 5385; Folio: 84; Page: 40; (crown copyright, care of the TNA)
  
  
• 1881: John is in the Pontypridd workhouse.
  RG11; Piece: 5299; Folio: 137; Page: 59; (crown copyright, care of the TNA)
  
  
• 1881: John dies a few months later in August in the workhouse. I have his death cert.

Here are some of my unanswered questions on John Luff and his family. Any thoughts or help with any of these would be stupendous. Alternatively I could just disown him.

• John Luff was born around 1829 somewhere in Somerset. Can anyone figure out where? I imagine his Somerset accent confused the Welsh. I'll attach a cropped image of the birth places when I figure out how to on this forum.
  
  
• Where is John in the 1841 and 1851 census? I’ve probably checked every census record with a John Luff in it but have found nothing definitive. By the way, he is not same person as person John Purnell Luff – not unless he managed to have two families at the same time in two different places.
  
  
• Any ideas on how I could find his first marriage.
  
  
• Where were his wife Mary and daughter Clara in the 1881 census? Note: Mary and Clara resurface in the 1891 census and 1901 census. Clara is a widow.
  
  
• What happened to daughter Catherine Luff? She vanishes after 1871, age 10. Cannot find a marriage or death record for her.
  
  
• Thoughts on why his son Edward changed his name to Edward ROBERTS Luff? He marries under that name and religiously uses it thereafter as if it were the most important thing on the planet, even ensuring all his children have Roberts in their names.

Not asking for much am I

[olliecat]

Wow notanotherminer. Thanks for your quick replies and your search. It's much appreciated.

I did come across a John Luff with father Thomas Luff in the census. I even attached Thomas and Sarah to my tree in the hope I could convince myself they were John's parents. I'm not sure though.

I can imagine that Thomas might say have a middle name of John or a mistake was made on the John's marriage cert. However, it's the birth places in the 1861 to 1881 census that also makes me hesitant.
(NOTE: I don't believe I can upload my cropped birthplaces image to this forum, so I think I will upload it elsewhere and create a link to it. See what people think.)

On his age. I've averaged between the census information and his age on his marriage and death cert. He says he is 31 in 1860 on his marriage cert. I suppose it's safe to say he was born about 1830 +/-2.

That baptism you found of a John Luff with mother Sarah and father James. Now that's interesting. I think I'll have to see if I can get hold of that. Nice one. I hadn't spotted that one on the IGI.

[AdeleE]

Based on the different versions of his place of birth on the census records, perhaps the place of birth is Odcombe in Somerset?

[Jan1954]

.....could find neither March nor Oldcomb in Somerset on a modern day map.

Perhaps Mark and Odcombe?

[olliecat]

I like that Odcombe suggestion Jan1954. When I look at the images it could fit all three. I'd love to borrow a Somerset chap with a broad accent and make him say Odcombe.

Here's a temporary link to the birth places image for a comparison between the three.

https://forum.folder101.com/phpbb/ima...irth_Place.jpg

Now to google Odcombe and Mark to see how close they are.

[olliecat]

notanotherminer you are so fast. You beat me to it. They are pretty far apart aren't they. Hmm! I think I'll go dig John up and ask him who his parents were.

[olliecat]

I have researched the parish of Odcombe a little. I was hoping to find coal mines in the area but it's mainly an agricultural area. I still think Odcombe is a good bet. However, while searching I came across another place called Holcombe.

Would that be possible? If said in a Somerset accent - would the H be dropped?


PS: AdeleE - I never thanked you for suggesting Odcombe in the first place.

[wincanton1]

your travels have come to the end your brick wall is cleared. holcombe in somerset is correct, john luff was born there with his other family. my connection was with his brother farnam luff born in doulting near holcombe. this is my family tree i have the complete family history going back tn johns father thomas and ann luff to 1803, hope this finds you well. duncan luff

[olliecat]

holcombe in somerset is correct, john luff was born there with his other family. my connection was with his brother farnam luff born in doulting near holcombe.

Hello Duncan.

How splendid to hear from a LUFF family member.

I believe you are proposing Thomas LUFF and Ann as the parents of my John and I do think this is a very good possibility. I pencilled them in a while ago but have not investigated them extensively.

For me, the uncertainty arises from the fact that John's father is recorded as John Luff on his marriage certificate. Having said that, I do have examples (from different lines) of information on marriage certificates being subsequently proven to be incorrect. Thus, I am quite open to the possibility that John's father's name was recorded incorrectly. However, it would be nice to find something that links John to Thomas and Ann in a conclusive way.

As I haven't looked into John LUFF much since I posted this thread I will have another poke around. It would probably be a good idea for me to go over what I already have with respect to Thomas LUFF and Ann and see if any blanks need filling in.

Off to check my tree to see what I have on them.

[wincanton1]

Hi there,
I have John Luff B 25th Feb 1827 born in Holcombe Father thomas mother ann nee tayler fathers occ, Miner. there were mines around Holcombe it was poor quality coal with open mines. please look at a site called BUTLEIGH.ORG then on the site "butleigh people" look for Luff and mY Luffs are there, no mension of John but the other luffs brothers and sisters. Also try Freebmd parish records, sorry if you know of them allready. Duncan