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  1. #21
    janbooth
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    And another one of the witnesses at Mary Ann's wedding was an E DICKMAN, so that looks like Eliza nee Sibthorpe. Looking for the baptisms of Benjamin & Mary Ann's children have come up with these from London Parish Registers:

    14 May 1899 at St Paul Deptford (born 1 April 1899) Benjamin BANKS son of Benjamin & Mary Ann, 52 Hale Street, Coster
    20 June 1900 at Christ Church Deptford (born 6 June) Albert Pretoria BANKS son of Benjamin & Mary Ann, 52 Hale Street, Coster
    17 August 1902 at Christ Church Deptford John Henry BANKS so of Benjamin & Mary Ann, 52 Hale Street, Coster

    Have also found the birth registration for Mary Ann BANKS born in 1916 according to William's Army Records: Mary A BANKS, Dec qtr 1916 at Greenwich reg district, vol 1d, page 1626, mother's maiden name LOVERIDGE. However, I can't find a birth registration for either Stephen or Mary Ann Susan although there is a Susan BANKS shown in the 1911 census where Benjamin & Mary Ann are living at 13 Hale Street with children Benjamin, John, Susan & Thomas and William SIPTHORPE described as a single Assistant, aged 27, Hawker born Deptford. No wonder I couldn't find a birth registration for Stephen - looking closer at the Army records and your information that Benjamin & Mary Ann had a Sophia, the Army records show it is Sophia who was born in 1914 - sorry about that. My only excuse is that the writing is pretty awful - grovel, grovel!! Sophia's birth registration is the June qtr 1914 at Greenwich reg district.

    Janet

  2. #22
    janbooth
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    I think Lizzy could well be correct with the marriage of Thomas SIBTHORPE to Emma Goodey as on the 1901 census is:

    RG13/527, folio 66, page 8
    14 Hale Street, St Paul Deptford

    John WALLIS Head M 49 Labourer (Dock) Kent Deptford
    Emma do Wife M 47 do do
    William SILTHORPE Son S 16 Van Boy Carm do do
    Eliza do Daur 7 do do

    And living at No 12 is a Joseph LOVERIDGE, aged 43, Dock Labourer, born Peterborough, his wife Esther and their family. The LOVERIDGE family do seem to have a Northamptonshire connection. Will continue searching.

    Janet

  3. #23
    janbooth
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    Hi Jo,

    Given that your LOVERIDGE family have Romany (AND seem to have Northamptonshire) connections, how about this record from the Northamptonshire Marriage Index 1837-60:

    Thomas LOVERIDGE, of the parish, Caldicote, bachelor, full age, Gipsy Pedlar, father William LOVERIDGE, Gipsy Pedlar married Zilla LOVERIDGE, of the parish, Caldicote, full age, spinster, Gipsey Pedlar, father James LOVERIDGE, Gipsy Pedlar on 18 November 1844 at Towcester, by banns. There seem to be quite a few LOVERIDGE intermarriages at Towcester around this time and the fathers seem to be classified as either Gipsy Pedlars or Travellers their names being Soloman a Basket Maker, William a Gipsy Pedlar, James a Gipsy Pedlar and Thomas a Gipsy Pedlar. What do you think?? Are any of the names familiar??

    Janet

  4. #24
    Joc_42
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    Hi Janet,

    Just trying to work our way through all the info you to see how it matches up.

    So how would we find out if emma goodey was williams mother???

    Also on checking the Tibthorpe on the 1881 we are quite sure (well almost sure if that is all correct that they are our family). But will cannot see the original as GR does not have the 1881 cenus???

    LOVERIDGE
    Its poss that the the above is Thomas' father but we are not aware of a northamptonshire connection other than it was noted as adolphus loveridge birth place on some census but we are not sure how he fits into our family.

  5. #25
    Joc_42
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    Quote Originally Posted by janbooth View Post

    Thomas LOVERIDGE, of the parish, Caldicote, bachelor, full age, Gipsy Pedlar,
    Would full age of been 21?

  6. #26
    Joc_42
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    Me again sorry.

    Ok so looking at this Thomas Loveridge was still alive in 1899 but by 1910 when Harriet got married he was deceased. I have checked all the records I have here and I can't find his death, will it still be in the parish records??

  7. #27
    Lizzy9
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    Quote Originally Posted by janbooth View Post
    I think Lizzy could well be correct with the marriage of Thomas SIBTHORPE to Emma Goodey as on the 1901 census is:

    RG13/527, folio 66, page 8
    14 Hale Street, St Paul Deptford
    John WALLIS Head M 49 Labourer (Dock) Kent Deptford
    Emma do Wife M 47 do do
    William SILTHORPE Son S 16 Van Boy Carm do do
    Eliza do Daur 7 do do
    Janet
    1911 Census Looks like Emma and John have been economical with the truth Address: 48 Hale Street, St Paul Deptford
    RG14PN2625 RG78PN89 RD28 SD2 ED2 SN45 (Crown copyright, in care of TNA)
    John Walliss [sic] 1851, dealer, Deptford
    Emma wife 1853, married 21 years, London Middlesex
    Eliza Walliss dau 18 yrs, Domestic Servant, Greenwich
    Last edited by Lizzy9; 30-01-2010 at 7:18 PM. Reason: Correction

  8. #28
    Joc_42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizzy9 View Post
    1911 Census Looks like Emma and John have been economical with the truth
    Thx Lizzy not sure I know what you mean, but heres what I thought I'd worked out today.

    I found a death for a thomas sibthorpe in apr qtr of 1889. but then on both his childrens ,marriages in 1899 he shows as still being alive???? (puzzled!)

    Do you think that Emma Wallis was in fact Emma Goodey??? as that would explain why william and eliza were living with John Wallis on 1901 census.
    I hope that makes sense as i've been chasing my tail all day!!!

    Jo

  9. #29
    Lizzy9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joc_42 View Post
    I found a death for a thomas sibthorpe in apr qtr of 1889. but then on both his childrens ,marriages in 1899 he shows as still being alive???? (puzzled!)

    It's not uncommon for a deceased father not to be recorded as such.

    Do you think that Emma Wallis was in fact Emma Goodey??? as that would explain why william and eliza were living with John Wallis on 1901 census.
    I hope that makes sense as i've been chasing my tail all day!!!

    Yes, Jo it looks like Emma was living with John Wallis, either co-habiting or married to him (but I cannot find a marriage). The reason I say they were economical with the truth is: in 1911 they say they've been married for 21 years and have recorded Eliza's surname as Wallis(s), when infact she was a Sibthorpe.
    Jo
    Hope this helps to clarify things.

  10. #30
    Joc_42
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    Thx Lizzy it certainly does because they is what we were thinking, I couldn't find a marriage either but I also couldn't find a death for Emma.

    I'm so grateful and aft 2yrs of searching you and Janet have helpful us piece together so much info - My mum is really happy, so a big thank you again.

    Jo

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