Simon and Charles Longmire Controversy

[Cybrsurfn]

During my research I have discovered a controversy about the family origin. I have read numerous discussion and what people feel is the right answer. However, with the evidence I've been able to acquire or see, I could not convict a dog with. The controversy arises with the father of George Longmire (1786-1868).

There is one camp that insists the father is Charles Longmire (1742-1799) who was born in King George, Virginia and died in Washington, Tennessee and married a gal named Lucinda in 1760 in Virginia. The other camp presents evidence from a book "James Longmire His Life His Family" by Marie Rice. I've known Marie for years as a very studious genealogist and in her book she presents as evidence a family letter written on 22 Oct 1922.

The letter was from Oscar Leroy (1849-?) Longmire (son of William Longmire, grandson of George) to David (son of James A. Longmire, grandson of George). Here are some of the key points of that letter...

1. Oscar's letter says that George (1786-1868) told him that his father is named Simon and he came from the north of England and settled in Pennsylvania in 1744.

2. It says that Simon had five brothers and were of Presbyterian faith and he had one son George (1786-1868) and two daughters.

3. It also says that one of the daughters married a Mr. Bacon and had 16 children. One of their (Mr. Bacon and George's daughter) sons became a U. S. Senator.

Now from that letter, it has to be recognized that Oscar was 73 years old and his grandfather had been dead for 63 years. This means that at best, Oscar had this conversation at 10 years old or younger.

As for the key points, I've been able to determine the following...

1. I've not been able to identify a Simon Longmire in Pennsylvania or any Longmire of that age having five kids.

2. I've not found any information on a Simon Longmire from north England, let along the number of children and their names.

3. The only U.S. Senator with the last name "Bacon" is Augustus Octavius Bacon (October 20, 1839 – February 14, 1914) and his mother's maiden name was Jones. This is a fairly well understood genealogy and the name Longmire does not appear. Augustus had only one brother.

Now this gives strong rise to suspect that Oscar's letter is in question but it would be nice to put a nail in that coffin by double checking and make sure a "Simon" Longmire of that period does can not be found or does not exist. Any assistance on how to determine this would be helpful.

Thanks.

[v.wells]

Cybersurfn

While I am not an historian or even a great researcher (especially anything American) I would ask if you had located and/or visually seen any Wills by any of the parties in question.

On your 2nd batch of 1,2,3 points, since you haven't found any evidence of truth and there is only the circumstantial evidence of Oscar's letter - in my opinion it sounds rather like a peacock displaying his feathers to impress.

It sounds like you have an impressive background in researching the Longmire's. I wonder if anything has been found under a surname variation - which I am sure you have thoroughly examined if you have.... do you know if the Oscar letter is real or a forgery? (Sorry, but those things did happen, even back then)...I am not casting aspersions on Marie Rice's genealogist abilities since I don't know the author's work, I'm just cautiously cynical.

[Cybrsurfn]

v.wells,

I have not seen the original Oscar letter but, I have every confidence that Marie did due diligence on its authenticity. She's a no nonsense type of person, which is why I believe she included the discussion in her book.

I too am cautiously cynical with what I've found and because of the respective ages between him and George. My 10 year old son never hears exactly what I've said and I doubt that things have changed in the last few millennia.

I have not seen a will from George. While willing to do the work, I'm still an amateur at this and your suggestion of a name variation has me thinking what an idiot I am. Right now I'm running cross checks on all of the Georges' I can find, from all of the states and territories of that period, against the birth and marriage records of the day. I'm hoping to make sure I know where all the George's were and what families they had. I suspect a few more weeks to finish that up and maybe a child's name will pop up as "Simon" to give possible indication of a relative.

As you might suspect, I do not get a warm fuzzy here and would really like to get some assistance on the terminology used "north England" and what that would indicate. Also, suggestions on where to start digging.

I appreciate you thoughtful comments.

[Cybrsurfn]

Cybersurfn

While I am not an historian or even a great researcher (especially anything American) I would ask if you had located and/or visually seen any Wills by any of the parties in question.

On your 2nd batch of 1,2,3 points, since you haven't found any evidence of truth and there is only the circumstantial evidence of Oscar's letter - in my opinion it sounds rather like a peacock displaying his feathers to impress.

It sounds like you have an impressive background in researching the Longmire's. I wonder if anything has been found under a surname variation - which I am sure you have thoroughly examined if you have.... do you know if the Oscar letter is real or a forgery? (Sorry, but those things did happen, even back then)...I am not casting aspersions on Marie Rice's genealogist abilities since I don't know the author's work, I'm just cautiously cynical.

As a follow up for future researchers, I came across Charles Longmire's Will of 1799. It's amazing what you can find on the internet now adays. It identifies George, is in the right place, and the proceedings agree with his age (13). The link is
https://
genforum.genealogy.com/longmire/messages/256.html

Marie Rice's latest book "James Longmire His Life His Family" acknowledges that the Oscar letter is not correct and concludes that Charles is the correct father for George.

[v.wells]

Cyber - I am really glad you found that Will and have settled in your mind the facts of this controversy of the correct fathers! It is also commendable that Marie Rice corrected her findings in her latest book. I wish you every success in your future searching. What an interesting update!

[Cybrsurfn]

Cyber - I am really glad you found that Will and have settled in your mind the facts of this controversy of the correct fathers! It is also commendable that Marie Rice corrected her findings in her latest book. I wish you every success in your future searching. What an interesting update!

It only took two years to reconcile this. Hopefully this information helps someone else. Thank you for maintaining this site.