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  1. #1

    Default The strange case of the missing marriage

    I'm trying to trace the marriage of my grandmother Alice Minnie SCRIVEN (AMS) nee COMPTON nee FORD to my grandfather, Charles Edward SCRIVEN (CES), They were both married twice.

    AMS (b about 1874)
    CES (b 1869)

    In 1901 CES was living with Mary (died 1903) with two children.

    In 1905 my father was born to AMS & CES in Fulham

    The April 1911 census gives the marriage between AMS & CES as being 1905-1906. (no. of full years = 5) - yes, I can do the sums!

    So my problem is - when did AMS & CES get married?

    No evidence of the marriage on BMD or England marriages (ancestry.co.uk), believe me, I've searched - I've looked for any SCRIVEN marriage in 1900-1910 on BMD and checked the names on the same page - nothing fits. In contrast, I can trace the Scriven family through multiple life events back to the early 1800's

    Any ideas would be appreciated.

  2. #2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dscriven View Post
    So my problem is - when did AMS & CES get married?

    No evidence of the marriage on BMD or England marriages (ancestry.co.uk), believe me, I've searched - I've looked for any SCRIVEN marriage in 1900-1910 on BMD and checked the names on the same page - nothing fits. In contrast, I can trace the Scriven family through multiple life events back to the early 1800's

    Any ideas would be appreciated.
    Have you search using COMPTON or FORD?
    What combination of spelling of SCRIVEN have you tried? SCRIVAN for instance.

  3. #3
    Name well known on Brit-Gen
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    Quote Originally Posted by dscriven View Post
    I'm trying to trace the marriage of my grandmother Alice Minnie SCRIVEN (AMS) nee COMPTON nee FORD to my grandfather, Charles Edward SCRIVEN (CES), They were both married twice.

    In 1905 my father was born to AMS & CES in Fulham

    The April 1911 census gives the marriage between AMS & CES as being 1905-1906. (no. of full years = 5) - yes, I can do the sums!
    I'm puzzled as to why Cyril SCRIVEN born 1905 is enumerated in 1911 as COMPTON and described as a step-son. His birth was apparently registered as SCRIVEN.

    Can you tell us exactly what Cyril's birth certificate says about his parents, please?

    Kerrywood

  4. #4

    Default Some more details

    Thanks for the replies - Neil - yes I've searched and found a couple of Alice Minnie FORDs, however neither seem to be born in the right place. As for COMPTON, I've found a couple of Charles Edwards, but again no marriage to FORD.

    I must admit that I deliberately reduced the complexity of the issue for my first posting, but I realise that I was wrong to do so, since Kerrywood immediately picked up on the crux of the matter - who was Cyril's father? Cyril was my father. So let me give you a more detailed description of what I know:

    My primary evidence sources are my dad's birth certificate, my uncle's birth certificate, the 1901 & 1911 census; secondary sources are BMD listings on FreeBMD and ancestry.

    Alice Minnie SCRIVEN = AMS (b about 1874)
    Charles Edward SCRIVEN = CES (b 1869)

    In 1901 CES was living with Mary (died 1903) with three children.

    In April 1903 AMS (then AMC) and Charles Edward COMPTON (CEC), had a son, Reginald George, my uncle (d 1923) in London. The mother is listed as Alice Minnie COMPTON formerly FORD and the father as Charles Edward COMPTON, journeyman
    carpenter.

    In August 1905 my father, Cyril, was born to AMS & CES in Fulham. The mother is listed as Alice Minnie SCRIVEN formerly COMPTON (who gave the info), the father as Charles Edward SCRIVEN, journeyman carpenter!!

    The April 1911 census form, filled in by CES, turns everything upside-down. He gives the marriage between AMS & CES as being between April 1905 & April 1906. (no. of full years = 5). Both Reginald George and Cyril are listed as stepsons, which contradicts the birth certificate of my father. There is only one child listed as being a product of the marriage: Charles Edward junior, born 1910, who I knew as Uncle Ted.
    Given the dates of birth and possible marriage dates, it seems probable that AMS was pregnant with my father when she married CES.

    So my problems are - When did AMS & CES get married? - When did AMS marry CEC? Did he die or did they divorce? Was FORD her maiden name? Where was she born? Where did CEC come from? Who is my grandfather?

    My brick walls are that neither marriage - of AM to CEC or CES can be found.

  5. #5
    Brick wall demolition expert!
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    Default

    Well this is getting interesting... Minnie "married" two men, both names Charles Edward?

    On the 1911 census, where does Minnie say she was born?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdeleE View Post
    On the 1911 census, where does Minnie say she was born?
    It could be Jeffrey Farm, Kings Langley, Herts (though that is not what is transcribed). Other opinions welcome

    Kerrywood

  7. #7
    Keyboard86
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdeleE View Post
    Well this is getting interesting... Minnie "married" two men, both names Charles Edward?

    On the 1911 census, where does Minnie say she was born?
    Hi Adele I have viewed the original maybe a dozen times and I still cannot make out what is written, it seems to read (Gulp) Jeffrey Farm, Kings ???ppets

    Charles Edward's is Oatlands Park Surrey if that helps!

    Keyboard

  8. #8
    Keyboard86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerrywood View Post
    It could be Jeffrey Farm, Kings Langley, Herts (though that is not what is transcribed). Other opinions welcome

    Kerrywood

    Kerrywood that is it!

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  9. #9
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    Just in case this helps anyone searching:

    Births
    Jun Qtr 1903
    COMPTON Reginald George
    Hampstead 1a 630

    1901 census (record held by TNA, crown copyright)
    RG13; Piece: 67; Folio: 144; Page: 28
    27 Ashcombe Street, Fulham
    Charles E SCRIVEN Head M 31 Carpenter & Joiner born Surrey Oatlands Park (Walton on Thames)
    Mary SCRIVEN Wife M 37 Hants Minestead
    Annie M SCRIVEN Daur 5 I of Wight, West Cowes
    Frederick SCRIVEN Son 2 London Fulham
    (indexed by Ancestry as SERWIN)

    Baptism
    St John Walham Green, Fulham
    28 Oct 1898
    Frederick, of Charles Edward & Mary SCRIVEN, 27 Ashcombe Street, Carpenter

    Birth
    Jun Qtr 1896
    SCRIVEN Annie Mary
    Isle of Wight 2b 581

    Marriage
    Trinity Church, Marylebone
    7 Apr 1890
    Charles Edward Scriven, 20, bachelor, Pork Butcher, Parish of St Mary's Oatlands. F - George Scrivens (deceased), Gardener
    Mary Clark, 26, spinster, 8 Park Crescent Mews East. F - James Clark, Coachman
    after banns, witnesses James Clark, Mary Scriven, Sarah Ann Dubbe?, all parties signed

    Kerrywood
    Last edited by Kerrywood; 03-01-2010 at 1:32 AM. Reason: spelling

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerrywood View Post
    It could be Jeffrey Farm, Kings Langley, Herts (though that is not what is transcribed).
    I agree - that's how I've read it. I've looked for Alice M COMPTON and Alice M FORD in the 1901 census, but I only found three Alice M FORDs of the right age (~27) who were born in and around London. Getting the marriage certificates will help because it contains all sorts of info about parents & previous marriages.

    The third child in the 1901 census, George, was staying with his grandmother, Mary, in Chertsey on the night of the census. I have successfully tracked all of Charles' brothers and sisters, their spouses and their children as well as his parents.
    Last edited by dscriven; 03-01-2010 at 3:43 AM. Reason: Added information

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