The strange case of the missing marriage

[AdeleE]

While it is possible that she didn't marry either man, I don't think it was likely - my sister, who met her in the 1940's remembers her as quite conscious of her station and remembers her proudly stating that she was originally a COMPTON.

My feeling is that Alice Minnie Ford Compton is the daughter of George Compton & Jane Ford. Do you have any family documents that would state her birthday? The year might be incorrect but I wonder if the day & month would match the 1871 birth certificate referenced by Lizzy (Alice Compton born 4th qrt 1871 registered in Poplar, vol 1c page 624)

The birth of Reginald George in 1903 may be illegitimate, especially as Charles Edward Scriven states on the 1911 census that he is his step-son.

As to why we can't find a marriage registration for Charles Edward Scriven & Alice Minnie, perhaps she was already married to someone else? She does seem to disappear from the records until 1903.

[Lizzy9]

My feeling is that Alice Minnie Ford Compton is the daughter of George Compton & Jane Ford. Do you have any family documents that would state her birthday? The year might be incorrect but I wonder if the day & month would match the 1871 birth certificate referenced by Lizzy (Alice Compton born 4th qrt 1871 registered in Poplar, vol 1c page 624)

The birth of Reginald George in 1903 may be illegitimate, especially as Charles Edward Scriven states on the 1911 census that he is his step-son.

As to why we can't find a marriage registration for Charles Edward Scriven & Alice Minnie, perhaps she was already married to someone else? She does seem to disappear from the records until 1903.

I too, think Alice was the dau of George and Jane Compton (nee Ford).

I also think it likely Reginald George was born illegitimately, otherwise why would Charles Edward enter step-son on the census return?

Kerrywood offered a plausible explanation for what's written on Reg's birth cert, ie mother's name Compton nee Ford (she used her mmn for respeactability)

[dscriven]

My feeling is that Alice Minnie Ford Compton is the daughter of George Compton & Jane Ford. Do you have any family documents that would state her birthday? The year might be incorrect but I wonder if the day & month would match the 1871 birth certificate referenced by Lizzy (Alice Compton born 4th qrt 1871 registered in Poplar, vol 1c page 624)

The birth of Reginald George in 1903 may be illegitimate, especially as Charles Edward Scriven states on the 1911 census that he is his step-son.

As to why we can't find a marriage registration for Charles Edward Scriven & Alice Minnie, perhaps she was already married to someone else? She does seem to disappear from the records until 1903.

To take your points in turn - no there are no family documents other than my father's birth certificate - our family belongings were destroyed during the Blitz. There may be documents with the descendents of Charles Edward (Ted) Scriven (b 1910), but our family lost touch many years ago.

The only record of Alice Minnie's age is the census of 1911, but to fit to your theory we have to assume that not only is her age wrong, but that her birth place was stated incorrectly too - this on a census form, that nobody would see or has seen for 90+ years.

The birth place - Jeffrys Farm, is in the right district - Kings Langley and Abbots Langley are adjacent.

Step-son doesn't necessarily mean illegitimate - usually it means a child by a parent other than your current partner - I've no idea whether CES's usage of this term was unusual for the time

CES states on the 1911 census that they have been married for 5 full years and they just had had a son that they named after him, so I do think that they were married, but when - who knows?

[Lizzy9]

While it is possible that she didn't marry either man, I don't think it was likely - my sister, who met her in the 1940's remembers her as quite conscious of her station and remembers her proudly stating that she was originally a COMPTON.

This poses the question : why would she proudly state she was a Compton originally, if she was infact born a Ford?

Good luck in finding the marriage to Charles Edward Scriven.

[Lizzy9]

Was Alice living in the Fulham district when she died? If so, her death registration fits with a birth Oct-Dec 1871.

Death Index

Alice M Scriven, Fulham Apr-Jun 1848, Age 76, vol 5c page 442.

[Kerrywood]

I'm afraid I'm butting in again
May I urge you not to be too quick to dismiss Adele's theory?

The only record of Alice Minnie's age is the census of 1911, but to fit to your theory we have to assume that not only is her age wrong, ...

If Alice Minnie was born in Dec Qtr 1872, as suggested by the above theory, she would have been 38 when the census was taken on 2 April 1911. The age given in the 1911 census is 37, only one year adrift, which I think everyone would agree was well within the margin of acceptability.

It seems that your grandfather filled in the schedule himself. This would be the first census he had filled in on Alice's behalf. He may not have known her exact age -- either she may not have told him, or she may have said she was younger, or he may have forgotten, or miscalculated -- there are many possibilities. Taken on the evidence of age alone, I would say the census stands up satisfactorily to your grandmother being born in late 1872.

... but that her birth place was stated incorrectly too

The address stated in 1911 -- Jeffrey Farm, Kings Langley, Herts -- is unusually specific. Even if Alice was not actually born at that address, she must have had a strong connection with it.

Again, the accuracy of census information depends on the knowledge of the person filling in the schedule. Knowing of her family's origins in the Kings Langley area, it is possible that your grandfather just assumed she was born there and never thought to ask her further.

With a FORD family found at this address in 1871, and a marriage to a COMPTON found in the same family, it would be an extraordinary coincidence if Alice, who had called herself both FORD and COMPTON in 1903, was not at least connected with this family.

CES states on the 1911 census that they have been married for 5 full years and they just had had a son that they named after him, so I do think that they were married

You may well be right, and a marriage may emerge in due course. But it was not at all unusual for folks to claim falsely that they were married, on a census, or when registering a child's birth, etc. It was often easier than publicly acknowledging things which they might have preferred to leave behind them. There will be few members of these forums who have not come across this in at least one of their family lines, and it is one of those things that are sent to try us genealogists!

It may be (as Adele suggested) that Alice married someone else before 1903 and was not free to marry Charles Edward Scriven. She is certainly not easily identifiable under the surname Compton in either 1891 or 1901, as you yourself have found. Given her age, it would not be surprising if she had married in the 1890s.

Clearly Charles Edward himself was not free to marry until late 1903, when his first wife died. It could be that they simply never got around to it, and once it had been left for a while they never bothered. Of course, you may yet find the marriage, but please don't be too disappointed if you do not.

It can be very disconcerting to be faced with suggestions which don't conform with one's expectations, and one isn't necessarily expected to embrace them wholeheartedly. But do please take some time to go through the above findings and give this theory due consideration, because it seems hard to dismiss the connections as coincidental. Hopefully something more may emerge to strengthen it in due course.

Kerrywood

[dscriven]

After 11 years! I can say that the solution presented by AdeleE is probably correct as are Kerrywood's comments.

The 1939 Census showed Alice Minnie Scriven as having a birth date of 2 Nov 1873 and Alice Compton (daughter of George Compton and Alice Ford has a birth date of 2 Nov 1871 - so it is highly likely that they are one and the same.

Alice Minnie Scriven never married Charles Edward Scriven - she told her youngest son (also Charles Edward aka Ted) this shortly before she died (from Ted's daughter, my 1st cousin). If she married before I have no evidence of it. Charles Edward's first wife, Mary, died of kidney failure in Kingston on 25 Aug 1903 with CES present - this was some 4 months after Reginald was born.

The address on Reginald George Compton's birth certificate was that of a society - for unwed mothers? - maybe, but it wasn't a normal residential address.

I believe that all 3 of Alice Minnie's children (including Reginald 'Compton') were fathered by Charles Edward Scriven.

I recently did a DNA test through MyHeritage and found that my closest relative was a second cousin (maybe once removed) living in New Zealand named Stephen Compton. He hasn't replied to my e-mails yet, but this likely confirms the Compton connection.

A very belated thank you to all who helped so long ago.